Suggestion for new landexchange calculation

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McMadMax
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Re: Suggestion for new landexchange calculation

Post by McMadMax » Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:31 pm

Nastyogre wrote: They appear to be made up to me and not using the actual ELO predictions or the exchanges as shown by the spreadsheet.
McMadMax wrote:Example:Player A wins 3 times out of 4 vs player B, their land exchange have a factor of 2,5. Averageland gain for a drop incursion is 15 so that would translate into 9 and 23 (or 24 depends on the way it rounds numbers), ground assault is 45 which would roughly translate into 28 and 71.
3 out of 4 which is pretty close to
A 1500 ELO player has a roughly 24% chance to beat a 1700 ELO player.
2.5 factor (the difference betwen HELO and LELO stake) is considerably lower than
With it set at 4, there is still a mild advantage to the better player. It's not a scratch league, no.
and the actual stakes are calculated based on the land exchange presented in the operation review (15 for a drop incursion and 45 for ground assault) X (base land exchange) divided by sqrt(2,5)

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Nastyogre
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Re: Suggestion for new landexchange calculation

Post by Nastyogre » Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:35 pm

Yes you do. Plenty of players avoid strong players. Apparently, even other strong players.

Jackal
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Re: Suggestion for new landexchange calculation

Post by Jackal » Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:57 pm

Ok guys. I think everyone's had an opportunity to air their points of view on this one. I don't think we need to make it personal, it's just a game.

@ Calibra: If you're still interested in pursuing this, my suggestion would be to have your Co6 representative (Aunodin) introduce the proposal in Council. I've stated my reasons for why I lean against it, but I'm not strongly against it and I have no idea what the general feeling of the Council is on the matter. Thank you for a carefully crafted and well thought out suggestion.

Aunodin
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Re: Suggestion for new landexchange calculation

Post by Aunodin » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:06 am

Just my two bits in, as I fit the criteria of both a LELO and new player, with only a few months of playing battletech.

Losing constantly is highly discouraging, a lot of people will say this and agree with it. Add in the factor of losing land and harming your faction with your loses and you will see players quit after only a few weeks of playing. Heck I had a slump recently where I did not want to log on because I knew I was probably going to lose pretty badly. For awhile I had a losing streak that went on for 2 weeks.

Now lets add in the factor that each lose you make gives you a big loss of a planet, that will kill motivation quick for everyone including people who are just in it for fun. So I am in principle going to oppose something that punishes people who lose more games than normal. But there is a bright spot as the Co6 is working on something that could speed up cycles a lot.

As a side note if you do want me to propose this to the Co6 I will, although I can't promise I will vote for it, I can be overruled if the others agree so there is no risk in asking me via PM to take it to the council. I may even change my mind depending on some arguments or if the majority of my faction supports this change. As the Co6 mission statement is to be the voice of your faction.

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Mock26
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Re: Suggestion for new landexchange calculation

Post by Mock26 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:03 am

When you have a low ELO and you manage to defeat someone with a high ELO that big payoff of land makes you feel really good about yourself and makes you want to fight more battles. Sure, the actual amount of land you just won is probably less than the land that you lost in your previous 5 or so battles, but a big payoff in land helps minimize the discouragement of losing a lot of battles.

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Nastyogre
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Re: Suggestion for new landexchange calculation

Post by Nastyogre » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:42 am

The job of the Co6 member is to represent the faction, not to necessarily poll your faction and do what they want. That's the point of representatives. Sometimes you have to do what's best for your constituents, not what they want. That said, you could be recalled or at the very least not elected again. (side rant on the American and every other representative democracy where elected officials worry more about being elected than the service they provide/rant off)

Aunodin, you do what you think is best for the server. That's the real challenge of the Co6. Get past what benefits you or your faction. Think about the implications of action or inaction. Unintended consequences. It's maddening really. I think you hit the nail on the head for motivation, Aunodin. Who needs motivation and assistance and who doesn't. It boils down to the philosophy of is equal always fair? Or is what is fair giving people the same chance at impact in the campaign? Too many new players and developing players consider themselves albatrosses already. Removing their big impact when they manage to win a game vs a strong player isn't going to help that.

Aunodin
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Re: Suggestion for new landexchange calculation

Post by Aunodin » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:48 am

Nastyogre wrote:The job of the Co6 member is to represent the faction, not to necessarily poll your faction and do what they want. That's the point of representatives. Sometimes you have to do what's best for your constituents, not what they want. That said, you could be recalled or at the very least not elected again. (side rant on the American and every other representative democracy where elected officials worry more about being elected than the service they provide/rant off)

Aunodin, you do what you think is best for the server. That's the real challenge of the Co6. Get past what benefits you or your faction. Think about the implications of action or inaction. Unintended consequences. It's maddening really. I think you hit the nail on the head for motivation, Aunodin. Who needs motivation and assistance and who doesn't. It boils down to the philosophy of is equal always fair? Or is what is fair giving people the same chance at impact in the campaign? Too many new players and developing players consider themselves albatrosses already. Removing their big impact when they manage to win a game vs a strong player isn't going to help that.
It is one reason I won't support the change, in addition to how we are doing the new victory conditions it will be a pretty big change already. Plus I don't want to get rid of that big win chance to really motivate LELO. So my vote will most likely be no unless the Co6 can rejigger the system to something different.

But I have put the proposal up for discussion on the Co6 forum so we can take a look at it, as it is something that we have a divide on if people want it or not. I am going to let more experienced heads take over on this one however, since the majority of the Council have experience with the server and know how the old system worked so they may be able to make a better decision for server health.

Spork
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Re: Suggestion for new landexchange calculation

Post by Spork » Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:00 pm

Aunodin wrote:For awhile I had a losing streak that went on for 2 weeks.
It took me almost 2 *years* to start breaking even here.

Seriously, kids these days.
Never had much, grew up with nothing
But the music, well it was something
Been down and out, I've been on top of the world,
World that keeps on spinning on a turntable.

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Klingon
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Re: Suggestion for new landexchange calculation

Post by Klingon » Thu Jan 21, 2016 11:45 pm

Spork wrote:
Aunodin wrote:For awhile I had a losing streak that went on for 2 weeks.
It took me almost 2 *years* to start breaking even here.

Seriously, kids these days.
I know, right?!?!
"Grasshopper, the three secrets to life are as follows. First, keep your eyes and ears open. Second... don't tell everything you know."

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