Defection Penalty is Again active

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Nastyogre
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Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by Nastyogre » Sun Dec 06, 2015 6:48 pm

With a 5-0 vote the defection penalty has returned on all defections after Solaris.

75% of your hangar, 50 points of flu, 10% of your cbills. Your RP, bays and techs are unaffected.
This should prevent players from stealing from other factions.

My personal suggestion to any player that might attempt to damage another faction or improve their position unfairly, or find a way around this control, don't. The staff always catches players that do that and they will probably be much less gentle than this penalty.

If you want to defect to another faction after you have chosen one after Solaris, ask a member of the staff. (A mod or Admin) They will weigh your reasons and provide you an answer. If it is refused, then you can still defect but you will have to rebuild your hangar.

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Re: Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by Abe » Sun Dec 13, 2015 11:37 pm

Are those numbers what you have left after defecting, or what you lose?

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Re: Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by Deadweight » Mon Dec 14, 2015 1:33 am

Nastyogre wrote: This should prevent players from stealing from other factions.
If all the CO6 wanted was to teach cheaters a lesson, they could have just let someone defect to the DCMS. Our bays have nothing but crappy Dragons and Chargers in them. :)

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Nastyogre
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Re: Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by Nastyogre » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:10 am

Deadweight wrote:
Nastyogre wrote: This should prevent players from stealing from other factions.
If all the CO6 wanted was to teach cheaters a lesson, they could have just let someone defect to the DCMS. Our bays have nothing but crappy Dragons and Chargers in them. :)
Now that makes me want to defect. Frankly, Chargers and Dragons are quite formidable. They aren't T-bolts, but then again, few mechs are.

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Re: Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by Sadistic » Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:34 am

Nastyogre wrote:
Deadweight wrote:
Nastyogre wrote: This should prevent players from stealing from other factions.
If all the CO6 wanted was to teach cheaters a lesson, they could have just let someone defect to the DCMS. Our bays have nothing but crappy Dragons and Chargers in them. :)
Now that makes me want to defect. Frankly, Chargers and Dragons are quite formidable. They aren't T-bolts, but then again, few mechs are.
Exactly!

A Dragon or Charger in a lance of heavy/assault mechs won't do you much good, but put them in the lead of a Medium/light lance and they are quite formidable.

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Re: Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by Deadweight » Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:23 pm

Sadistic wrote: Exactly!

A Dragon or Charger in a lance of heavy/assault mechs won't do you much good, but put them in the lead of a Medium/light lance and they are quite formidable.
And it's this exact reason (you liking Dragons and Chargers) that make you an awful and "sadistic" person. :P

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Re: Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by Nastyogre » Tue Dec 15, 2015 6:28 pm

Deadweight wrote:
Sadistic wrote: Exactly!

A Dragon or Charger in a lance of heavy/assault mechs won't do you much good, but put them in the lead of a Medium/light lance and they are quite formidable.
And it's this exact reason (you liking Dragons and Chargers) that make you an awful and "sadistic" person. :P
I think the hold up quite well. The Chg as a brawler. Dragon puts out firepower pretty close to a Marauder without the heat plus it can achieve better move mods. In heavy terrain it struggles more because it can't move. In moderate or light terrain, the Dragon shines.

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Re: Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by Deadweight » Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:31 pm

Nastyogre wrote: I think they hold up quite well. The Chg as a brawler. Dragon puts out firepower pretty close to a Marauder without the heat plus it can achieve better move mods. In heavy terrain it struggles more because it can't move. In moderate or light terrain, the Dragon shines.
I'd take a MAD-3R over a DRG-1N any day. I'd much rather have the 2 PPCs and an AC/5 that can do 40 damage every 2 turns (2 PPCs+1AC then 1PPC +1AC) and have some back-up Med Lasers when stuff gets hairy vs. the Dragon's 14 damage every turn. Yeah the Dragon's faster and stays cooler, but if that MAD's got a nice place to stay still and volley fire, it's golden.

The Dragon is something I just can't get behind. It really seems like it should be a brawling/kicking mech but it's two main weapons suck for close encounters. At range it's got a pathetic punch for something its size and it's speed actually seems to hinder it. It's also 4x as likely to have an ammo explosion as the MAD.

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Re: Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by Sadistic » Wed Dec 16, 2015 5:12 am

It's true that it's weapons won't do you any favors in a close range fight, but it's speed makes it better able to place itself where you want it for a Melee attack and simply fire on another target with it's main guns. At the BV levels you should be playing it at those kicks are devastating and having the agility to put yourself in the correct arc to hit the leg you want can let you cripple an opponent very quickly. A marauder in the same situation will find itself overwhelmed and outmaneuvered.

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Re: Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by Aunodin » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:11 am

The one thing I always regretted about the dragon is that it lacks a head mounted flamer. I don't care if it is impractical or even silly, it just needs to be there for fluff reasons, although it would give it some anti infantry and a close ranged weapon to boot.

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Re: Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by Deadweight » Wed Dec 16, 2015 6:48 am

Aunodin wrote:The one thing I always regretted about the dragon is that it lacks a head mounted flamer. I don't care if it is impractical or even silly, it just needs to be there for fluff reasons, although it would give it some anti infantry and a close ranged weapon to boot.
Lol... So true!

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Re: Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by Nastyogre » Wed Dec 16, 2015 4:10 pm

Sadistic wrote:It's true that it's weapons won't do you any favors in a close range fight, but it's speed makes it better able to place itself where you want it for a Melee attack and simply fire on another target with it's main guns. At the BV levels you should be playing it at those kicks are devastating and having the agility to put yourself in the correct arc to hit the leg you want can let you cripple an opponent very quickly. A marauder in the same situation will find itself overwhelmed and outmaneuvered.
Bingo. It's my fault for comparing the Marauder or Whammy to the Dragon. They fill two entirely different roles. Mobile fire and to an extent a trooper for the Whammy and Mad. Dragon is a Heavy Cavalry unit that fills a trooper role fairly often.

Pounding it out the firepower of the Whammy and Mad will probably carry the day. Sadistic is on point with his comment. Dragon is fast enough and tough enough to get into position for solid physicals, even if it doesn't have a brawler's weapons. The weakness of Whammy and Mad leg armor is significant. They are somewhat overgunned and under armored. Dragon is undergunned but well armored for it's weight and especially it's speed.

Frankly, A WHM or MAD with a Dragon in support is pretty nice.

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Re: Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by Deadweight » Thu Dec 17, 2015 6:29 pm

Nastyogre wrote: Frankly, A WHM or MAD with a Dragon in support is pretty nice.
I'm still not buying it. I'd rather just have two MADs or two WHMs (or a mix of both).

The DRG's weaponry is pathetic for its size and while physicals are important, they're not enough to actually make the DRG a good choice. It's missing a hand actuator on one hand, so punching with that arm isn't as good. Its other arm has its front-facing medium laser, its only close range weapon, so punching with that arm is a trade-off. All its other weapons are long range weapons that take penalties in close. It's got a rear-facing medium laser which is nice on a brawler that is meant to get outflanked, but the DRG is supposed to be the one outflanking its enemies, so that weapon is a waste of tonnage. It's got ill-protected ammo in both its torsos and its armor is maximized everywhere but its legs where it only has half of its maximum, so its legs are vulnerable. Yes, it can kick but those legs get destroyed pretty quick in my experience. Really, the only thing it has going for it is speed. However, even its speed isn't all that. 5/8 is nice, sure, but without jump jets it sucks if the terrain is anything other than flat and open. I basically look at the Dragon like a more BV-expensive WVR (and I gotta say, I can't stand the WVR, either) with worse weaponry, comparable armor, comparable speed, worse maneuverability, and a higher likelihood of exploding. All in all, it's a really badly designed unit. It's the SHD of the heavies.

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Re: Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by Bloodknight » Thu Dec 17, 2015 9:09 pm

I don't mind the DRG, but my favorite model is the DRG-C. I find that the extra armor makes it a decent brawler, although it loses even more firepower. I tend to just set myself up to shoot a different unit than the one I want to kick. And yes, the placement of the Med Lasers is absolutely pitiful. What irks me most is how expensive the Dragon becomes when he levels, then he's really awful with not enough firepower to make the gunnery level worth it and since you don't want to use the kicks till the late game (I try to get at least rid of one ammo slot on both sides empty before I get stuck in) piloting is very overpriced, too.
The comparison with the WVR doesn't really fit, in my opinion, though. The WVR is a good brawler, it's got two weapons to the front and the arm mounted weapon sucks at close range anyway, so you might as well punch :).

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Re: Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by Aunodin » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:24 am

See I am one of the few people it seems that will honestly always use a shadow hawk 2h if I get one, I really think it is a solid and dependable support mech to help protect my fire support mechs

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Re: Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by Mole » Fri Dec 18, 2015 10:34 am

FWIW, a few cycles ago I did surprisingly well with an all SHD army, usually at least two H models with one or two othert models. When unleveled, they often went up against (and made mincemeat of) leveled lights and the odd heavy at that BV could often be rendered almost immobile with mines and/or infernos.
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Re: Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by Nastyogre » Fri Dec 18, 2015 1:15 pm

Those who underestimate the Shad-H are destined to be stomped flat by it. It's a good light hunter with prex and can plink vees as well.

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Re: Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by Deadweight » Fri Dec 18, 2015 3:40 pm

Oh, you guys. You're cute. :lol:

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Re: Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by BarukKhazad » Fri Dec 18, 2015 7:26 pm

Well this topic diverged.. but on the subject of Chargers.. I never really used them effectively until this cycle. I only pulled two of them, but still have both. One has been in 19 games and the other in 36 games. I am betting some of you remember meeting them. :lol:
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The hardest button to button/ /The hardest button to button/ /The hardest button to button

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Re: Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by Deadweight » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:33 pm

BarukKhazad wrote:Well this topic diverged.. but on the subject of Chargers.. I never really used them effectively until this cycle. I only pulled two of them, but still have both. One has been in 19 games and the other in 36 games. I am betting some of you remember meeting them. :lol:
Nice. As much as I can't stand Chargers on MMN, I do love them in BT. Here on MMN we use the optional charging rule from TacOps which drastically gimps a Charger's ability to take on a heavy or assault. I get why the optional rule is used, but I gotta say, in BT, there's nothing nearly as satisfying as connecting that 56 point charge.

Truth be told, I too am having some luck with a Charger this cycle. I've only got one but he's in a lance with 2 Crabs and a Hebi and amazingly he's not only survived a dozen battles (as they all have), but he's even got 4 kills somehow. I keep sending him out front to draw fire and he just. wont. die.

But I'd still rather have a real mech over a Charger (including the slower variants).

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Re: Defection Penalty is Again active

Post by Aunodin » Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:20 am

I honestly would be using the charger a lot if I pulled one, if only for the fact that I have found I do more damage with my small lasers than an ac20.

Small Lasers, accept no substitute

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