New cycle discussion

Miscellaneous topics about the campaign

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Klingon
Posts: 1144
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:59 am
Location: Austin, Texas (on assignment from Luthien)

New cycle discussion

Post by Klingon » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:12 pm

According to http://www.mekwars.org/mediawiki-1.20.2 ... cil_of_Six

Your elected leaders will now be able to impact the settings used in the campaign, provided they can get agreement from the other leaders.

Thoughts?

Discuss.
"Grasshopper, the three secrets to life are as follows. First, keep your eyes and ears open. Second... don't tell everything you know."

Got a good idea to add to MekWars? We'd love to hear about it. (from that page, go to "Tickets", then "Feature Requests")

User avatar
Klingon
Posts: 1144
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:59 am
Location: Austin, Texas (on assignment from Luthien)

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Klingon » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:32 pm

I have a question:

Say a faction leader is perceived by some to not be doing a sufficiently good job by their faction; is there any way to hold a recall election, or a vote of no-confidence?
"Grasshopper, the three secrets to life are as follows. First, keep your eyes and ears open. Second... don't tell everything you know."

Got a good idea to add to MekWars? We'd love to hear about it. (from that page, go to "Tickets", then "Feature Requests")

User avatar
Nastyogre
MegamekNET Moderator
Posts: 4134
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:46 am

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Nastyogre » Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:42 pm

I know Faction leaders have been removed by the staff. I would always consider a vote of no confidence a possibility. Whether or not the staff wanted to recognize it is a question, but I think they would.

Spork
Mekwars Developer
Posts: 3896
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:23 pm

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Spork » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:24 am

I suspect that will be the very first question brought before the Council.
Never had much, grew up with nothing
But the music, well it was something
Been down and out, I've been on top of the world,
World that keeps on spinning on a turntable.

Ceorl
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:43 am

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Ceorl » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:44 am

I got a chuckle to see the guy opening the floor to discussion ask a question to himself.

Anyhoo, I think this is a good idea. I've felt that the faction leadership position needed more teeth to help engage the playerbase. I would also recommend that the position not be set in stone like previous cycles. It should more democratic and open to player engagement outside of admin removal.
(Retired)

obese pigeon
Posts: 874
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:51 am

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by obese pigeon » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:30 am

having a 'Council' sounds nice and all, but is it necessary?

Any advantage in slowing down the decision making process and possibly introducing a layer of politics? This is a gaming server entirely staffed by volunteers right?

Edit: To be clear, i'm just wondering what's the rationale for this kind of a setup, and whether its really needed

Spork
Mekwars Developer
Posts: 3896
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:23 pm

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Spork » Tue Jul 14, 2015 12:28 pm

The rationale is that it gives house leaders some actual power, and gives the player base direct control over the environment. We often shoot ideas down. Not this time.
Never had much, grew up with nothing
But the music, well it was something
Been down and out, I've been on top of the world,
World that keeps on spinning on a turntable.

User avatar
Mole
Posts: 433
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:27 am

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Mole » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:35 pm

The Periphery leader, if voted out, must be keelhauled, tarred and feathered, and forced to walk the plank. Or just drink rum until passing out. I forget which.

On a more serious note, here are a few general suggestions:

1) Double the C-bill costs (but not the flu costs) of the existing open BM to encourage players to fish in their own faction bays, otherwise the faction build tables start to lose their meaning.

2) Reintroduce the abilty to trade an RP in for flu. Otherwise, a player on a losing streak (been there, more often than the opposite) can get into a corner in which it is very hard to replace damaged units because of a lack of flu, even with the cash on hand.

3) Let's get more creative with the ops just to keep things fresh, and not just for the players with the most EXP or leveled pilots. Let's keep the Assassination op and come up with a few more, maybe a fun op unique to each faction and a few more that anyone can do?

Cheers,

Matthew (Mole)
"Take what you can, give nothing back!"
The beard, the earrings, the rum...of course I'm a pirate.

Lando
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:18 pm

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Lando » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:25 pm

Klingon wrote:I have a question:

Say a faction leader is perceived by some to not be doing a sufficiently good job by their faction; is there any way to hold a recall election, or a vote of no-confidence?
I hope it will be not to easy to hold a recall election. The house leader needs the safety, that he didn't get a recall election after every single decision. He should be more than the mouth of his house.

There are two more things, which are very important in my opinion:

We should take care of our veterans which left the server, and trying to get them back, and we should take care of the newcomers, so that they hopefully stay longer.
I will set my focus on the newcomers. I'm thinking of the idea to establish a "Lando Mekwars Academy". I'm by far not in the top group of the best skilled players here on the server, but I'm willing to teach Newcomers, if they want to get some lessons. I'm not sure about how to do it, but one part should be a fixed date in the week, when I'm online with a SOL account and ready to give teachings.

User avatar
Nastyogre
MegamekNET Moderator
Posts: 4134
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:46 am

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Nastyogre » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:02 pm

That's a great idea Lando. I've found that the best trainers of this game are not always the best players. They often overwhelm new players with too many details.
The best are accustomed to looking at 23047892340798 different variables and new players just can't do that. Mid to good players are often the best trainers I've found. Expert play can't hardly be taught anyway.

I agree it should be something significant to recall a leader. Then again, if you had a faction that wanted to recall a leader, would the leader really want to lead? If it rises to the level of a recall, then the leader certainly has lost their mandate. A faction that was foolish enough to recall a leader over petty reasons, or over a single unpopular decision, would probably be devoid of leadership very quickly.

I would hope our veteran players return due to the activity and the possibility to have a direct voice in campaign changes. If they still read these boards, I would hope that would bring them back. If they aren't keeping up on things here, I would suspect they have little interest in returning, unless their concerns are fundamental to the environment. (Some players have specific gripes with players/staff, I would assume the council can't vote a mod or admin out, nor should the council be able to)

User avatar
Klingon
Posts: 1144
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:59 am
Location: Austin, Texas (on assignment from Luthien)

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Klingon » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:33 pm

Ceorl wrote:I got a chuckle to see the guy opening the floor to discussion ask a question to himself.
To be fair, was more to throw it out there for discussion or get an answer from the admins, than ask myself. :P I'm not THAT senile, yet, but please do keep me on my toes.
"Grasshopper, the three secrets to life are as follows. First, keep your eyes and ears open. Second... don't tell everything you know."

Got a good idea to add to MekWars? We'd love to hear about it. (from that page, go to "Tickets", then "Feature Requests")

Spork
Mekwars Developer
Posts: 3896
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:23 pm

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Spork » Tue Jul 14, 2015 6:52 pm

In fairness to Klingon, this concept was discussed by a total of two people - Tuco and myself, prior to announcement. The rest of staff is as new to this concept as you all are.

And no, the players will not be able to depose staff.
Never had much, grew up with nothing
But the music, well it was something
Been down and out, I've been on top of the world,
World that keeps on spinning on a turntable.

Ceorl
Posts: 529
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 4:43 am

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Ceorl » Tue Jul 14, 2015 7:37 pm

We should take care of our veterans which left the server, and trying to get them back, and we should take care of the newcomers, so that they hopefully stay longer.
I find these core concepts to be mutually exclusive and very difficult to manage. A server which attempts to do both "straddles the fence" and ends up satisfying neither camp. I advocate the server focus on newcomers because veterans are both likely to remain regardless of change ("inelastic demand") and interested primarily in quantity of matchups which is heavily determined by the influx and retention of beginners.

In other words, think of the server as an election campaign. You don't play to your base, you already have their votes, you play to the swing voters.

To tie this back to the Council, the idea is good because it will give rookies an ear to voice grievances and effect change. The current system has worked well for years, but I am positive many rookies do not believe they can express grievances to neutral, clockwork (as in set a cycle up and let it play out with few changes) admins / mods. An advocate with a vested interest in representing their views could help morale.
(Retired)

User avatar
Klingon
Posts: 1144
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:59 am
Location: Austin, Texas (on assignment from Luthien)

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Klingon » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:46 pm

Spork wrote:In fairness to Klingon, this concept was discussed by a total of two people - Tuco and myself, prior to announcement. The rest of staff is as new to this concept as you all are.

And no, the players will not be able to depose staff.

*grin fades as Klingon puts away the torches and pitchforks*
"Grasshopper, the three secrets to life are as follows. First, keep your eyes and ears open. Second... don't tell everything you know."

Got a good idea to add to MekWars? We'd love to hear about it. (from that page, go to "Tickets", then "Feature Requests")

Tuco
MegamekNET Campaign Operator
Posts: 2820
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:23 pm

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Tuco » Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:54 pm

I can only read that so that you are used to work all day and after dawn with no electrical light, shoveling the hay for Mentawl.
When the injustice is great enough, Justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it.
None may stand against it.
It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment and lend its servant the power to pass sentence.
Know this: there is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them.
It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods.
Know that for ALL who betray Justice, I am their fate... and fate carries an Executioner's Axe.

soupfly
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:07 am

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by soupfly » Wed Jul 15, 2015 7:26 am

can we get some sort of indicator that lets us know that our army BVs are close to others. There is nothing worse than seeing a dozen or so ppl on the server and no games going.

User avatar
Nastyogre
MegamekNET Moderator
Posts: 4134
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:46 am

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Nastyogre » Wed Jul 15, 2015 5:33 pm

soupfly wrote:can we get some sort of indicator that lets us know that our army BVs are close to others. There is nothing worse than seeing a dozen or so ppl on the server and no games going.
I wonder if this might decrease the blinding mechanism or increase it. Perhaps if you could only get that report if you were active. Then maybe you could see 10% of the army BV out, or 500 points or something. I would think people might try to use the to "top" people. Come in and go active safely then adjust their BV to try and get to just about 150 over their potential opponent.

We could probably work out a reasonable system though. Programming might be an issue. I don't know how hard it would be.

User avatar
Klingon
Posts: 1144
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:59 am
Location: Austin, Texas (on assignment from Luthien)

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Klingon » Wed Jul 15, 2015 6:48 pm

Maybe a counter at the bottom of the player list, where it only reports if at least 4 people are active, how many there are?

Possible reports:

<4
4
5
6
7
8

et cetera. That way you couldn't use it in a very low player moment to ascertain exactly who it is, but still give you a general idea?
"Grasshopper, the three secrets to life are as follows. First, keep your eyes and ears open. Second... don't tell everything you know."

Got a good idea to add to MekWars? We'd love to hear about it. (from that page, go to "Tickets", then "Feature Requests")

Eric von Kastell
Posts: 53
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:09 pm
Location: Germany

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Eric von Kastell » Thu Jul 16, 2015 7:01 pm

What about paying e.g. 500 or 1000 cbills for a spy who might tell you the BV of possible opponents on the front?

I'm writing "might", because it could depend on a roll on a 2d6 table like:
2 BV is shown with a deviation of e.g. 1000 around the true BV
3-4 deviation of e.g. 750
5-6 deviation of e.g. 500
7-8 deviation of e.g. 400
9-10 deviation of e.g. 300
11 deviation of e.g. 200
12 deviation of e.g. 100

Sure, would be some programming, but should not be that difficult?!

Best regards,
EvK

Spork
Mekwars Developer
Posts: 3896
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:23 pm

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Spork » Fri Jul 31, 2015 6:58 pm

I am heading on vacation in about 4 hours. I will be out of state with no access to technology for 8 days, so please do not break the server.

When I return, we will commence elections. If a faction has only a few players, then so be it, they will have a heavy influence on the upcoming server configuration. Nominations will run for 1 week, elections for 1 further, and then we will start in earnest.

To prospective faction leaders, please be able to commit to representing your faction in short, focused forum discussions about campaign settings. I don't want to eff around a lot when it comes to initial settings - I want to hit the ground running shortly after we've got a council, and then adjust as necessary going forward.
Never had much, grew up with nothing
But the music, well it was something
Been down and out, I've been on top of the world,
World that keeps on spinning on a turntable.

Nemesis
Posts: 119
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:37 pm

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Nemesis » Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:50 am

soupfly wrote:can we get some sort of indicator that lets us know that our army BVs are close to others. There is nothing worse than seeing a dozen or so ppl on the server and no games going.
I'd thought of something along these lines, but not an actual % since that could lead to cheesy optimizing by adding some small vees and inf til you're exactly 300 BV over where the report said.

Just using made up numbers, I'd like to see the report show you armies to attack within 300 of you, but also say there is an army of X faction within 500 of your BV. No % to tell you how much, not even +/- to tell you if they're above or below, just that there's someone else active and nearby.

As an alternative, have the scouting report show you armies you can attack as normal, but also say there are X players from Y faction with a total of Z armies active, showing that for each faction with at least one active player. You won't know who or what or how big, but you'll know how likely you are to get a game if you juggle youre armies a bit.

Nemesis
Posts: 119
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:37 pm

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Nemesis » Sat Aug 01, 2015 4:04 am

Spork wrote:When I return, we will commence elections. If a faction has only a few players, then so be it, they will have a heavy influence on the upcoming server configuration. Nominations will run for 1 week, elections for 1 further, and then we will start in earnest.
Since we'll be voting based on what faction we happen to be in when you return, I'd like to confirm a few things first:

What factions are open for next cycle? Are we back to all of them?

Will the build tables be staying the same? This can affect faction choices, and some players may want to switch before nominations begin.

As for leaders, Ogre did an excellent job with FS last cycle. No matter what faction he winds up in, I'd like to see him leading it. I suspect he's going to win the vote anyway but in my opinion he deserves to simply be awarded a spot on the council. Not that I'm creating yet more work for him or anything! :D

User avatar
Nastyogre
MegamekNET Moderator
Posts: 4134
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:46 am

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Nastyogre » Sat Aug 01, 2015 6:16 am

That is very flattering Nemesis, thank you. I serve only when elected. I'm not positive I want to stand, I've been the faction leader for most of the last three years. I've even considered jumping to a new faction. The council is only for me if I stand as a leader. I've been loud for a long time, perhaps it's time for others to lead. I'm still going to be around and frankly do you think I am really going to be quiet?

Tuco
MegamekNET Campaign Operator
Posts: 2820
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:23 pm

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Tuco » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:40 am

Buildtables should not be a concern for membership, unless you have not understood the council concept. If one faction really has bad tables, the council will agree on this and the tables can be changed midcycle (same for too good tables of course!)
When the injustice is great enough, Justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it.
None may stand against it.
It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment and lend its servant the power to pass sentence.
Know this: there is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them.
It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods.
Know that for ALL who betray Justice, I am their fate... and fate carries an Executioner's Axe.

User avatar
Mole
Posts: 433
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:27 am

Re: New cycle discussion

Post by Mole » Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:59 am

I vote that all Periphery meks be issued a bonus cutlass. Or a bottle of rum.
"Take what you can, give nothing back!"
The beard, the earrings, the rum...of course I'm a pirate.

Post Reply