My Feedback of this Cycle so far

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Nemesis
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Re: My Feedback of this Cycle so far

Post by Nemesis » Fri Aug 21, 2015 1:12 pm

celegance wrote:There are many many differences on legends as opposed to here. There are/were many players that used time intensive tactics on legends however those were fewer and far between as opposed to here. The server as a whole also tended to reward using what you get. Losses were also much less harsh on the individual player and if you lose enough you'd end up with a bv advantage over your opponent. The entire environment there was much less cutthroat.
That's one of the changes I liked most over there, that you could only use each mech in your hangar once until you'd used 75% of them. It forced people to use every mech they had, not just the best ones. You could still get around it by having a hangar made up solely of multiples of the good mechs, but that was almost impossible to do. You could also run a very small hangar and reset those great mechs after 2 games, but you'd have no spares and quickly be rebuilding the armies anyway.

Jackal
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Re: My Feedback of this Cycle so far

Post by Jackal » Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:05 pm

I actually really liked that mechanic on Legends as well. I think hat that particular feature was Legends-specific homebrew code and not available here, however (unless I'm mistaken).

Spork
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Re: My Feedback of this Cycle so far

Post by Spork » Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:43 pm

But.... the license clearly states that they made source available. How could it not be available here?
Never had much, grew up with nothing
But the music, well it was something
Been down and out, I've been on top of the world,
World that keeps on spinning on a turntable.

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Nastyogre
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Re: My Feedback of this Cycle so far

Post by Nastyogre » Fri Aug 21, 2015 2:59 pm

Yes we know Spork. The Legends operators won't share th code changes to Mekwars and most of the things people would like to see from there are part of that code. The Mekwars/ Megamek owners won't/can't enforce that requirement.

Nemesis
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Re: My Feedback of this Cycle so far

Post by Nemesis » Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:03 pm

I knew it was one of their own additions to the codebase when I mentioned it, just like I also knew they're violating the license by not sharing any of the changes. :(

I was just saying it was a nice feature. That and logistics centres forcing advances to be made in a few small areas, which adds a new strategic element to the game. The rest I can live without.

If you wanted to you could always pull a Microsoft Office, and change the format of something important (say, the player files) with each new release. Then they can choose to not get any of the updates from the core branch vs having to write a conversion program for each release that happens in the middle of a cycle. If that becomes enough of a pain to do they can always play nice with the other programmers, release the source to their changes, and youll stop.

Just my evil thought for the day.

Tuco
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Re: My Feedback of this Cycle so far

Post by Tuco » Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:10 pm

Nastyogre wrote:Yes we know Spork. The Legends operators won't share th code changes to Mekwars and most of the things people would like to see from there are part of that code. The Mekwars/ Megamek owners won't/can't enforce that requirement.
https://www.law.kuleuven.be/jura/art/44n4/peeters.html

We could. But my personal interest in any piece of code deliberately being held outside of the community is next to not existant. Their code will be forgotten a few years after their server fails, and so be it.
When the injustice is great enough, Justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it.
None may stand against it.
It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment and lend its servant the power to pass sentence.
Know this: there is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them.
It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods.
Know that for ALL who betray Justice, I am their fate... and fate carries an Executioner's Axe.

Spork
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Re: My Feedback of this Cycle so far

Post by Spork » Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:24 pm

Nemesis wrote:I knew it was one of their own additions to the codebase when I mentioned it, just like I also knew they're violating the license by not sharing any of the changes. :(

I was just saying it was a nice feature. That and logistics centres forcing advances to be made in a few small areas, which adds a new strategic element to the game. The rest I can live without.

If you wanted to you could always pull a Microsoft Office, and change the format of something important (say, the player files) with each new release. Then they can choose to not get any of the updates from the core branch vs having to write a conversion program for each release that happens in the middle of a cycle. If that becomes enough of a pain to do they can always play nice with the other programmers, release the source to their changes, and youll stop.

Just my evil thought for the day.
They don't pull updates, haven't in years. Our codebases are too far divergent for that at this point.
Never had much, grew up with nothing
But the music, well it was something
Been down and out, I've been on top of the world,
World that keeps on spinning on a turntable.

celegance
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Re: My Feedback of this Cycle so far

Post by celegance » Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:16 pm

Tuco wrote:
Nastyogre wrote:Yes we know Spork. The Legends operators won't share th code changes to Mekwars and most of the things people would like to see from there are part of that code. The Mekwars/ Megamek owners won't/can't enforce that requirement.
https://www.law.kuleuven.be/jura/art/44n4/peeters.html

We could. But my personal interest in any piece of code deliberately being held outside of the community is next to not existant. Their code will be forgotten a few years after their server fails, and so be it.
I'm certainly sympathetic to that. However I do hope that IF(ginormous if) coding effort goes into developing new features for the server nothing get's dismissed out of hand simply because it was used on legends.

Padraig Tseng
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Re: My Feedback of this Cycle so far

Post by Padraig Tseng » Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:16 pm

Spork wrote:But.... the license clearly states that they made source available. How could it not be available here?
LOLSPORKWINSLOL
life is the crummiest book I ever read,
there isn't a hook, just a lot of cheap shots,
pictures to shock and characters an amateur would never dream up

Tuco
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Re: My Feedback of this Cycle so far

Post by Tuco » Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:49 am

celegance wrote: I'm certainly sympathetic to that. However I do hope that IF(ginormous if) coding effort goes into developing new features for the server nothing get's dismissed out of hand simply because it was used on legends.
I'm not saying that. But from a coders point of view (who does this for free, and in his free time): would you first code something completely new, or re-code something that already exists and is illegally held back? For the second item a coder may at least hope that sanity will win over narrowmindedness, and one day it may become "just a merge" instead of a complete re-code.
When the injustice is great enough, Justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it.
None may stand against it.
It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment and lend its servant the power to pass sentence.
Know this: there is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them.
It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods.
Know that for ALL who betray Justice, I am their fate... and fate carries an Executioner's Axe.

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wildj79
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Re: My Feedback of this Cycle so far

Post by wildj79 » Mon Aug 24, 2015 2:58 am

Now, to be fair, if you download the Legends client, they do state in the README file that if you want a copy of their code, all you have to do is ask. But, as Spork points out:
Spork wrote:They don't pull updates, haven't in years. Our codebases are too far divergent for that at this point.
This is the bigger issue. At this point, it would be very difficult to next to impossible to merge the two codebases without making major modifications to one or the other to make them work together.

TigerShark
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Re: My Feedback of this Cycle so far

Post by TigerShark » Mon Aug 24, 2015 3:01 am

wildj79 wrote:Now, to be fair, if you download the Legends client, they do state in the README file that if you want a copy of their code, all you have to do is ask. But, as Spork points out:
Spork wrote:They don't pull updates, haven't in years. Our codebases are too far divergent for that at this point.
This is the bigger issue. At this point, it would be very difficult to next to impossible to merge the two codebases without making major modifications to one or the other to make them work together.
It's been requested, several times. By several people. You're welcome to try.

Padraig Tseng
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Re: My Feedback of this Cycle so far

Post by Padraig Tseng » Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:44 pm

wildj79 wrote:Now, to be fair, if you download the Legends client, they do state in the README file that if you want a copy of their code, all you have to do is ask.
They do this to pay the absolute minimum amount of lip service to the license requirements.....
life is the crummiest book I ever read,
there isn't a hook, just a lot of cheap shots,
pictures to shock and characters an amateur would never dream up

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wildj79
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Re: My Feedback of this Cycle so far

Post by wildj79 » Wed Aug 26, 2015 3:00 am

TigerShark wrote:
wildj79 wrote:Now, to be fair, if you download the Legends client, they do state in the README file that if you want a copy of their code, all you have to do is ask. But, as Spork points out:
Spork wrote:They don't pull updates, haven't in years. Our codebases are too far divergent for that at this point.
This is the bigger issue. At this point, it would be very difficult to next to impossible to merge the two codebases without making major modifications to one or the other to make them work together.
It's been requested, several times. By several people. You're welcome to try.
I wasn't aware that others had tried. So, I stand corrected. Anyways, my bigger point was that, even if we could get the code, Spork's point about how divergent the code bases are makes any of this a moot discussion. It would be a major undertaking to merge their changes in. And, though I'd like to see some of the things that they have added merged into the general MekWars package, I'd rather see the dev's spend their time adding new features to the software.

Now, that being said... If anyone does get their hands on their code, drop me a line. I wouldn't want the dev's to waste their time, but I'd be willing to give it a shot. Though I primarily work in C#, Java has enough similarities with C# that I could muddle my way through and figure it out. :wink:

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