No mobile HQs for next cycle. please

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obese pigeon
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No mobile HQs for next cycle. please

Post by obese pigeon » Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:16 am

i'm of the strong opinion that mHQ or any init gaming should be completely removed from the buildtables. Even 0.1% is 0.1% too much.

Let me elaborate. At the moment, the init advantage is completely free of charge, bv wise. That totally doesnt make sense. If i was to exploit it, i would field an mHQ with 5 LCTs/SDRs and just play a game where i am completely in control and my opponent is unable to get init. In the rare instances he gets init. well then, just back off.

The thing about this advantage is that it scales up in power dramatically as army size increases (since we dont use front loaded init).
A good way to cost this advantage in bv terms maybe something like 50 bv per point of init advantage per unit.

therefore, a +1 mHQ in a 4 unit lance would cost 4*50 = 200 bv. a +2 mHQ in a 5 unit lance would cost 5*50*2 = 500 bv

Off the top of my head, that sounds a little fairer.

Since we use 'official' rules, and battletech bv rules dont handle mHQ, i doubt this is likely to happen. Moreover, mekwars probably does not have the code to handle this.

My main beef with this is that it changes a fundamental aspect of the game, unfairly, and not for the better. When two players play, the guy without the mobile HQ has no means to counter this change (short of killing the unit)

So my question is, since we know this aspect of the game is completely unfair, why allow it here? Discuss

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Nastyogre
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Re: No mobile HQs for next cycle. please

Post by Nastyogre » Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:00 pm

I used mine for a while. The prize was too shiny. After a bad loss with it. I realized it made my play poor. I relied on it and fielded armies that weren't really viable without it. I scrapped it. Regardless of their effectiveness, they shouldn't be used. It's like any other myriad of units that are appropriate in specific scenario battles or when you agree to such with another player. Not in a blind, competitive environment. I think this should also apply to the Diamyo. While it has enough BV to make it sort of provide some cost to the advantage, its nowhere near enough. Perhaps 200 BV per unit would come close to their worth. Then again, They are worth dramatically more with mobile units than giant lumbering hulks.

The flipside is to make the stupidly common and trot out the mech quirks that provide init bonuses. I don't think I'd like that.

While I scrapped mine, I've instructed some of the Fed Suns players to keep theirs for the time being. If Chachi is willing to ask his players to scrap theirs, I will ask ours to scrap them as well. Think of it as our own little nuclear treaty. Of course we cannot enforce this as Faction Leaders, I know I have a great deal of influence and could reliably get my team to do as I ask. I would hope the samurai of the DC respect their leader enough to do so as well. I would guess most do.

If the P has a leader? Mole? I would invite them to the table as well.

Then again, it is something to consider if the Faction Leaders are willing to make an agreement to eliminate them from THIS cycle, perhaps the staff should be willing to delete all instances. I think any player that is willing to scrap them should receive a reward. Either from the house resources (I know I can ask people for cash and units and get it, I'll put up my own of course) or from the staff, if they were so generous as to do so. Nothing extravagant, no "pick a star league unit" but perhaps a random unit from the table of their choice or something with a "roll again" if they get something they really don't want.

That's the offer of the Prince's Champion and Prince Emeritus of the Federated Suns. Just the thoughts of an old, smelly Ogre.

obese pigeon
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Re: No mobile HQs for next cycle. please

Post by obese pigeon » Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:41 pm

Thanks Nastyogre, but i really just wanted to find out if other players felt the same way, or is it just me

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Bloodknight
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Re: No mobile HQs for next cycle. please

Post by Bloodknight » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:28 pm

It's an easy solution, the HQ part can be turned off as a Megamek option, I wouldn't even have to remove them from the buildtables, they'd just be slightly crappy tanks (apart from the Daimyo, that thing has enough firepower to merit its price).

McMadMax
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Re: No mobile HQs for next cycle. please

Post by McMadMax » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:09 pm

Just as a side remark, in a 16 on 16 battle,that ini bonus isn't worth 800 bv,i doubt it's worth anything at all.

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Nastyogre
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Re: No mobile HQs for next cycle. please

Post by Nastyogre » Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:42 pm

That's a good point MMM. (Holy crap we agreed) For larger battles could the init bonus be turned back on? Then again, except in Grand Slams, I don't think they can be fielded at high bv. Even a light swarm of 16 units... oh wait that's part of the problem. Not a 16 on 16 light. But 16 on 4 or 6.

If it was something the players could voluntarily turn on in the lobby, that would keep it interesting. Usable by choice for big battles. Not usable to gain unfair advantage. Like simfire or some such thing.

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Bloodknight
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Re: No mobile HQs for next cycle. please

Post by Bloodknight » Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:27 pm

For larger battles could the init bonus be turned back on?
It's a global setting. Of course, players would be welcome to turn it on in the lobby if both parties agreed, which would probably never happen.

obese pigeon
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Re: No mobile HQs for next cycle. please

Post by obese pigeon » Sun Apr 26, 2015 12:05 am

McMadMax wrote:Just as a side remark, in a 16 on 16 battle,that ini bonus isn't worth 800 bv,i doubt it's worth anything at all.
i completely agree. Its far more complicated to model init advantage accurately than just the simple linear formula i suggested. I was just attempting to illustrate a point.

Edit: Upon reflection, 800 bv might be about right for a 16k bv game. so maybe its not so far off.

Ceorl
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Re: No mobile HQs for next cycle. please

Post by Ceorl » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:40 am

Never liked the things since day one, would be happy to see the initiative bonus remove but keep the tanks around for fluff purposes.
(Retired)

McMadMax
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Re: No mobile HQs for next cycle. please

Post by McMadMax » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:50 am

obese pigeon wrote:
McMadMax wrote:Just as a side remark, in a 16 on 16 battle,that ini bonus isn't worth 800 bv,i doubt it's worth anything at all.
i completely agree. Its far more complicated to model init advantage accurately than just the simple linear formula i suggested. I was just attempting to illustrate a point.

Edit: Upon reflection, 800 bv might be about right for a 16k bv game. so maybe its not so far off.
May i have an LRM carrier plz?

Rushvin
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Re: No mobile HQs for next cycle. please

Post by Rushvin » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:35 pm

I would ask that instead of removing the Init bonus just switch the Mobile HQ to one of the less effective ones. MMN has like 5 other models of Mobile HQ to choose from that give only a +1 to init, the current model we can pull is the only one with a +2 to init.
The Mobile HQ (ICE - LL) would be a nice and vulnerable choice.

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