Wiki progress

Discussion area for campaign development

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Nastyogre
MegamekNET Moderator
Posts: 4134
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:46 am

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Nastyogre »

Tweaked MMM language and wording. Ok, I re-wrote alot of the page but the core is still there. I split things out into what "being active" means.

There really wasn't that much opinion in there MMM. Your grammar and spelling were ok, just a couple of things to fix.

I also started linking a few things. I noticed some pages have been created but they link to nothing. We want to make sure we don't have Orphan pages that are tough to find.

Spork
Mekwars Developer
Posts: 3899
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:23 pm

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Spork »

Do you folks have access to the "Orphaned Pages" list? Special Pages->Orphaned Pages
Never had much, grew up with nothing
But the music, well it was something
Been down and out, I've been on top of the world,
World that keeps on spinning on a turntable.

User avatar
Nastyogre
MegamekNET Moderator
Posts: 4134
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:46 am

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Nastyogre »

What's the definition of an Orphaned page then?
The three remaining Orphaned pages do link to other pages... or they did. Let me check on that.

As an Aside I've started working on the Operations. Its slow going. I'm verifying every permutation on the op. Min or max BV, unit weight, unit types available, min speed, min Skillsum, number of units.
Once I've re-written it all, I'll come up with a standard format for the entry.

Mentawl
Former MegaMekNET Campaign Operator
Posts: 602
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:57 am

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Mentawl »

There are an awful lot of variables for each op :(

User avatar
Klingon
Posts: 1144
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:59 am
Location: Austin, Texas (on assignment from Luthien)

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Klingon »

McMadMax wrote:(and i'm still struggling to find a way to explain min-maxing without one).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Min-maxing is a decent place to start. The problem you're running into, is the details of what is or isn't min-maxing is very much open to debate. Some players will call it good playing, others resent being subjected to it. The techniques applied by Khalcruth and Clayrock would be excellent examples of enthusiastic debate on the finer points.

On one level, it's simply focusing on what's important to you. On another level, it's disregarding what would be valid in-universe concerns, for mechanics that only take effect on gameplay.
Last edited by Klingon on Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Grasshopper, the three secrets to life are as follows. First, keep your eyes and ears open. Second... don't tell everything you know."

Got a good idea to add to MekWars? We'd love to hear about it. (from that page, go to "Tickets", then "Feature Requests")

User avatar
Klingon
Posts: 1144
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:59 am
Location: Austin, Texas (on assignment from Luthien)

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Klingon »

I added subfactions to the mechanics page, and it's no longer orphaned. :)
"Grasshopper, the three secrets to life are as follows. First, keep your eyes and ears open. Second... don't tell everything you know."

Got a good idea to add to MekWars? We'd love to hear about it. (from that page, go to "Tickets", then "Feature Requests")

User avatar
Klingon
Posts: 1144
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:59 am
Location: Austin, Texas (on assignment from Luthien)

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Klingon »

The page for the link to LJP's terrains page can probably be deleted, but I don't have sysop privileges to do it. We already simply link to L:JP's page, so a wiki page with the link it immediately redundant.
"Grasshopper, the three secrets to life are as follows. First, keep your eyes and ears open. Second... don't tell everything you know."

Got a good idea to add to MekWars? We'd love to hear about it. (from that page, go to "Tickets", then "Feature Requests")

Spork
Mekwars Developer
Posts: 3899
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:23 pm

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Spork »

Klingon wrote:The page for the link to LJP's terrains page can probably be deleted, but I don't have sysop privileges to do it. We already simply link to L:JP's page, so a wiki page with the link it immediately redundant.
Done.

Nastyogre, an orphaned page is one that doesn't have anything linking *to* it.
Never had much, grew up with nothing
But the music, well it was something
Been down and out, I've been on top of the world,
World that keeps on spinning on a turntable.

User avatar
Nastyogre
MegamekNET Moderator
Posts: 4134
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:46 am

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Nastyogre »

Mentawl wrote:There are an awful lot of variables for each op :(
Well, there have always been lots of variables. The mek/vehicle split doubles them potentially. Not entirely, BV ranges and spreads are the same. Movement and tonnage may be different.
The skillsums and rewards will be the same.

Its not so bad. Just fleshing it out it seems worse than it is. Remember several ops go away too. It won't be so bad.

User avatar
Klingon
Posts: 1144
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2008 12:59 am
Location: Austin, Texas (on assignment from Luthien)

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Klingon »

Last orphaned page can also be deleted. http://www.mekwars.org/mediawiki-1.20.2 ... efinitions



Reason: http://www.mekwars.org/mediawiki-1.20.2 ... p/Terrains is a duplicate of it, and is linked from the main page already.

(added the other orphan page, Factions, to the mechanisms list)
"Grasshopper, the three secrets to life are as follows. First, keep your eyes and ears open. Second... don't tell everything you know."

Got a good idea to add to MekWars? We'd love to hear about it. (from that page, go to "Tickets", then "Feature Requests")

Domenoth
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:25 am

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Domenoth »

Nastyogre wrote:
Mentawl wrote:There are an awful lot of variables for each op :(
Well, there have always been lots of variables. The mek/vehicle split doubles them potentially. Not entirely, BV ranges and spreads are the same. Movement and tonnage may be different.
The skillsums and rewards will be the same.

Its not so bad. Just fleshing it out it seems worse than it is. Remember several ops go away too. It won't be so bad.
Nastyogre wrote:What's the definition of an Orphaned page then?
The three remaining Orphaned pages do link to other pages... or they did. Let me check on that.

As an Aside I've started working on the Operations. Its slow going. I'm verifying every permutation on the op. Min or max BV, unit weight, unit types available, min speed, min Skillsum, number of units.
Once I've re-written it all, I'll come up with a standard format for the entry.
Hey Nastyogre, in the interest of helping devote time where it is well spent, I wouldn't worry about doing anything like this for the ops. I believe I mentioned, I wrote a program that takes as its input the txt files that MekWars generates as the definitions for the ops (as in what I think MekWars actually loads when the server boots up). The program looks for useful-for-army-building settings in each file and generates a wiki page for each op. The process only takes about 20-30 seconds per op.

Once I get a zip of all the op files like Mentawl was gracious enough to provide once already (for the previous cycle though) I should be able to have all of the ops on the wiki in about an hour. And they will be straight out of the MekWars program with an absolute bare minimum human input (and therefore nearly 0% chance for human error).

No need for trial and error. No need for experimentation in your hangar assembling armies. The wiki will show how MekWars thinks the ops are set up (which is sometimes different than how the op was intended to be set up i.e. Tourny armies weren't intended to be able to defend Raids but as far as MekWars was concerned, they were able to).

Unless I'm mistaken, the txt files have to be present on the file-system when the MekWars server program is started/rebooted. This means they don't require any extra work to generate because if the server is functioning, that means there is a set of txt files already available. The only extra work is putting them in a zip and uploading them to dropbox.

If I'm mistaken about that Mentawl, let me know. I don't want to create any extra work for you. If you have to do anything more than pack the contents of the ops directory into a zip file and upload it to dropbox let me know and I'll rewrite my program so the information is inputted some other way (by hand for example, based on trial-and-error army building). We'll still end up with similarly formatted op pages (should make them easier to read), where human error is minimized though not eliminated :P

User avatar
Nastyogre
MegamekNET Moderator
Posts: 4134
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:46 am

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Nastyogre »

Ok boys, cycle is started let's get this rolling again.
Pick something and let's get her done.

Domenoth
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:25 am

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Domenoth »

Thanks to Spork, we now have wiki entries for all the standard ops each with a small set of details. These pages are entirely generated by the application I wrote, so I recommend against editing them directly. Instead, I'd suggest first seeing if it's possible for me to get whatever you want changed/added included in the output from my application. That way it can easily be added to all the operations rather than just the one you want to edit.

Having said that, there are a few things I noticed that I thought I added but didn't or didn't even think of but now realize would be really useful if included.

Specifically, I thought I added minimum total units per op, but it looks like I only have minimum units of each type. My bad on that one.

Next, I'd like to add pilot skill sum info as well. I didn't even think about that one until I saw Nastyogre mentioning it in the descriptions.

If you want to check out what I've done: feedback is welcome.

User avatar
Nastyogre
MegamekNET Moderator
Posts: 4134
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:46 am

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Nastyogre »

very nice. I would like to see what you suggest and a standardization of the desctiptions. i.e. each facet is mentioned and each is mentioned in the same way and the same place within each description. We are close but not spot on.

Do capture and pillage still exist?

Domenoth
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:25 am

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Domenoth »

Nastyogre wrote:Do capture and pillage still exist?
What Spork sent over didn't have them. So I would say, no.

User avatar
Nastyogre
MegamekNET Moderator
Posts: 4134
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:46 am

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Nastyogre »

I've begun updating the ops listings with the new info. I am done with Tutorials, all of the three standard ops, plus Kingslayer.

Have yet to do the ComStar ops, tourneys or super ops.

I will be reading the Op file for additional details as well. I will manually add in things like Payout, RP and other pertinent details. I will also be clarifying some things that could be better stated.

Klingon is reviewing my initial build table Excel to see if we can turn it into a worksheet. I will keep you updated.


Does anybody code well enough (and have the time) to re-create LJPs terrain atlas? I've thought perhaps we could generate the maps and perhaps post them into the wiki directly?
Thoughts?

Jackal
Posts: 1391
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Jackal »

Maybe we can ask LJP either if he can update it or give us the code for the terrain atlas? It's a great resource when it's up-to-date.

User avatar
Nastyogre
MegamekNET Moderator
Posts: 4134
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:46 am

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Nastyogre »

As I understand it, the Atlas is gone and is not recoverable. I think we have to re-create it from scratch.

User avatar
Nastyogre
MegamekNET Moderator
Posts: 4134
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:46 am

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Nastyogre »

I will be reposting the operations with the most recent files this afternoon (done as soon as I am done with this post)

Next would be to look into the files and pull out the parts that Domenoth's extractor does not capture. Special things like skirmish needing 20 or 25% on each side to work, payouts in cbills and RP

I'll call the op listing good then.

I worked out how to get the buildtables into an excel and format things the way I want. Requires making buttons to execute custom sorting macros. The "quick sort" functions don't work the way I need them to.

After that, I think tackling the new player stuff is in order, along with terrain.

Jackal if you want to start going through the starter guide in the forum and extracting the valid info and making new pages that we can use for it, that would be a good place to start.
After we are done with the new player forum info, we can draw in the GIANT amount of info in the Fed Suns forums. I looked it over and its nuts how much a few of us produced.
Many pages worth of info in there.

When that is all done we will have Ops, Terrain, new Player and tactical info complete.

Left would be Strategic Play (the metagame that is the campaign) Economics of the Campaign and Faction Write ups though the build tables help with part of that.

Anybody wants to tackle something, pick it and get to work. Something is almost always better than nothing and we can always talk about tweaking something.

Domenoth
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:25 am

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Domenoth »

Nastyogre wrote: Next would be to look into the files and pull out the parts that Domenoth's extractor does not capture. Special things like skirmish needing 20 or 25% on each side to work, payouts in cbills and RP
The extractor is semi-configurable, so if you'd like, I can try flipping the switch so those values get included in the output. Suggestions on where in the layout they should go would be welcome.

If it's in the file, I should be able to extract it. Some things get left out of the op file if they are using what's considered the default. So the extractor has to be aware about what the default is if the op file leaves it out. That's the only thing I'd be concerned about--the extractor not having access to what the default is.

User avatar
Nastyogre
MegamekNET Moderator
Posts: 4134
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:46 am

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Nastyogre »

Hmm, what if you extracted everything? Perhaps only leaving out the most obvious things that don't apply here? Like things that have to do with Protomechs. We could then post it to the Wiki, then edit out what we don't want.

I'm not too worried about defaults. We could add that sort of stuff manually if we wanted to.

Perhaps do that and we can take a look at the full output. If its too large to be dealt with we can pare it down.

Organization hmm:

Force Composition (This will need Sub-sections)

Operation Info (This will need sub-sections)

Rewards

Description: We should probably have something more descriptive than just the nuts and bolts.

Tuco
MegamekNET Campaign Operator
Posts: 2827
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:23 pm

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Tuco »

Nastyogre wrote:As I understand it, the Atlas is gone and is not recoverable. I think we have to re-create it from scratch.
http://www.maplib.net/atlas.php?id=1421
When the injustice is great enough, Justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it.
None may stand against it.
It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment and lend its servant the power to pass sentence.
Know this: there is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them.
It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods.
Know that for ALL who betray Justice, I am their fate... and fate carries an Executioner's Axe.

User avatar
Nastyogre
MegamekNET Moderator
Posts: 4134
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:46 am

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Nastyogre »

Wow, now that is cool. Its only part of what existed before. Is LJP getting the rest up? Do we need to take it further? Are we going to host this so it is preserved?

Tuco
MegamekNET Campaign Operator
Posts: 2827
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 10:23 pm

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Tuco »

i do not know if this is an earlier version, or him starting to re-upload the files.
When the injustice is great enough, Justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it.
None may stand against it.
It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment and lend its servant the power to pass sentence.
Know this: there is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them.
It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods.
Know that for ALL who betray Justice, I am their fate... and fate carries an Executioner's Axe.

User avatar
Nastyogre
MegamekNET Moderator
Posts: 4134
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2010 4:46 am

Re: Wiki progress

Post by Nastyogre »

Ogre will be patient.

Post Reply