Complaint against Obese Pigeon for provoking Illician Lancers and wrong use of admin powerand banning me for no reason

[Illician Lancers]

I want this to be check by Jackal no by OP obviously OP will rule in his favor.

I was playing a game vs Mole no bugs or complaint were reported to OP he came as an observer and ask if we do mind? i answer yes because since the time of the complaint i made against him and he mention my family in the post, he is in my NP and i dont even talk to him so obviously i dont want him observing my games as a player if he is there by a legitimate reason as an admin because he has been called np at all otherwise he knows he is provoking me each time he check my games. This isnt the first time this happens each time he check my games i always said that i mind he there. So i hope Mole can file a complaint and put the logs of the game. Mole ask him to leave too in an polite way so we cant continue the game. I said i will resume playing when he leave. The exchange keep going for a while which is in the game logs which i hope Mole can post here. Finally he left and then we continue the exchange in main channel which is recorded here and banned me for no reason at all. Mole did said he will file a complaint and i said very clearly the reason why i dont want him in my games and if the other player is ok with me pausing the game as Mole was in this case. Banning me for no reason is an abuse of admin power in this case and OP can said whatever he wants about he dont have a beef with me but he knows he has and he keep provoking me until finally his dream have come true and he find out a BS reason to banned me from the server. I ask jackal to limit OP interactions with me, stop provoking me and dont let him abuse admins powers again. It has been more than 3 cycles since anyone have complaint at all about anything about me and he banned me for no reason while Mole and me where playing happily a game with no a single issue at all whatsoever except him provoking me.

[12:04] obese pigeon [CC]: Illician Lancers Mole
[12:04] obese pigeon [CC]: Please read the rules
[12:04] Illician Lancers [LC]: aha
[12:04] obese pigeon [CC]: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=107
[12:04] obese pigeon [CC]: Moderators can observe all games without explanation or reason. It is part of their job to do exactly that and you are not allowed to ask them to leave.
[12:05] Illician Lancers [LC]: i know the rules OP, Admin and mod can obs any game at any time and i also will pause and stop playing anytime you check any of my games unless you are there for a legitime reason, bug check or a player complaint
[12:06] obese pigeon [CC]: ok. if that is your stand.
[12:07] obese pigeon [CC]: so you are saying you will force intentional delay on your opponent, in order to get me to NOt observe your games
[12:07] Mole [P]: Moderators are also players and people, so a moderator with a longstanding beef with another player needs to show good judgement and not provoke, or give the appearance of provoking, that player.
[12:07] Illician Lancers [LC]: otherwise i dont want you in any of my games been admin or no, you want to check smashing i pause the game until you leave problem solve. You are in my NP for life for a reason, and i only talk to you when is an admin issue otherwise i dont even engage or bother to talk to you at all
[12:08] Illician Lancers [LC]: im saying you mention in a complaint we had long ago my family and since that day i dont want anything to do with you
[12:08] obese pigeon [CC]: ok IL, im going to ban you if you insist on this
[12:08] Mole [P]: As someone with no dog in this fight, it appears to me that you are abusing your role as a mod and deliberately provoking Illician Lancers
[12:08] obese pigeon [CC]: im going to give you a chance now
[12:09] obese pigeon [CC]: is this your stand?
[12:09] obese pigeon [CC]: that you will implement intentional delay on your opponent to stop me doing my job as an admin?
[12:09] Illician Lancers [LC]: a chance of what of getting finally you r dream come true and banned me from here for no reason at all whatsoever
[12:09] obese pigeon [CC]: that is not my dream
[12:09] obese pigeon [CC]: i've let you stay
[12:10] Illician Lancers [LC]: you have become an awesome admin OP provoquing players, that is a new skills admin can exercise, i need to ask jackal about that new fuction of admins
[12:10] obese pigeon [CC]: but if you stop me from doing my job, by inconveniencing another player, i wont stand for that
[12:10] Mole [P]: obese pigeon, I would like to ask you to pause this exchange until we have finished our game and I have had a chance to file a complaint to be reviewed by our community, this is needless provocation
[12:10] obese pigeon [CC]: so i ask one last time, is that your stand Illician Lancers?
[12:10] Illician Lancers [LC]: you are the one inconveniencing players
[12:11] obese pigeon [CC]: ok bye
[12:11] obese pigeon [CC]: it will just be a temporary bad, you can come back
[12:11] obese pigeon [CC]: ban
[12:11] obese pigeon [CC]: and i welcome you back btw
[12:11] Illician Lancers [LC]: dream come true exercise over power for no reason lol
[12:11] obese pigeon [CC]: i have nothing against you

after that last setence he banned me from theclient in the middle of game me and Mole we having

KInd regards,

Illician Lancers

[Mole]

I would like to support the complaint against obese pigeon by Illician Lancers for abuse of his authority as an administrator. I think it's important to remember that our administrators and moderators are players, too, and people like anyone else. It's up to the administrators and moderators to check there own behavior to be sure that there is no abuse, or even appearance of abuse, of their authority. I also agree with Illician Lancers that, as this is a complaint against obese pigeon, he should not participate in ruling on it. He is, of course, welcome to express his side of things in this thread.

There is clearly a longstanding animosity between the two of them, and I know that Illician Lancers feels that he has been singled out in the past and server rules instigated largely targeting him. I cannot speak to that as I was away from the server for many years, but I do know that Illician Lancers feels that he was personally insulted by obese pigeon and therefore has made him his one NP player.

***Server: obese pigeon connected from /124.246.102.67
obese pigeon: hi mind?
Illician Lancers: yes
***Server: obese pigeon has been granted vision of the entire map
Mole: what was that about?
obese pigeon: for IL, its a rhetorical question
Illician Lancers: unless you are here as an admin checking a complaing or a bug i do mind in any of my games
Mole: obese pigeon, admin or no, unless there is some issue I don't think you should be observing if IL said no
Mole: please explain
obese pigeon: i dont owe you an explanation Mole
[snip]

By arriving in our game, asking if we minded if he observed, then brushing aside the objection from Illician Lancers with "for IL, its a rhetorical question", it appears to me that obese pigeon was deliberately provoking Illician Lancers. I also find that his refusal to say why he was observing despite the objection goes against the spirit of sportsmanship and mutual respect we can and I should expect from our community. I do not deny that an administrator has the right to observe a game but I do not see any reason why he/she should not be transparent about it. Adminstrators and moderators are members of our community, too, not some sort of secret police.

I do not excuse the vulgarity from Illician Lancers and I told him as much, so if he were being punished for that alone I would perhaps feel less of a need to speak up. But this particular situation seems to have been the result of provocation by an administrator and I think that should be taken into account.

Cheers,

Mole

[obese pigeon]

#1 Illician Lancers[LC] is attempting a Policing Sweep on Otisberg (Units: 4 Meks / BV: 4581). Mole[P] is defending (Units: 2 Meks, 2 Vees, 2 Inf / BV: 4727)

obese pigeon: hi mind?
Illician Lancers: yes

***Server: obese pigeon has been granted vision of the entire map

Mole: what was that about?
obese pigeon: for IL, its a rhetorical question
Illician Lancers: unless you are here as an admin checking a complaing or a bug i do mind in any of my games
Mole: obese pigeon, admin or no, unless there is some issue I don't think you should be observing if IL said no
Mole: please explain
obese pigeon: i dont owe you an explanation Mole
obese pigeon: its not my fault L cannot get past grudge
Mole: I disagree, these seems like deliberate provocation
obese pigeon: and i can assure you that is untrue
Illician Lancers: well mole np we will stop until he get out i have all day anyways
Illician Lancers: well OP you know i dont want you on my games and you keep checking them that is a provocation each fucking time
Illician Lancers: you said whatever you want but it is what it is
Mole: Again I will ask, what prompts you to observer if one of the players declines?
Mole: If there is a legitimate reason then you should have no problem sharing it, if there is no reason, then there's your answer
obese pigeon: Mole, i say again, i dont owe you an explanation. And IL is not that important to me, if you think im watching this game because of him, you would be wrong
Mole: They why are you watching this game? What's the big secret?
obese pigeon: i have my reasons, eg campaign metagame monitoring
Illician Lancers: obs away a static game OP Mole let me know when OP leave and we can keep playing
obese pigeon: just one of many
Mole: Well, it bothers IL and has therefore interrupted our game, please do not observe
Illician Lancers: hahaha that is rich I wonder how many times Mole or any players in the last 3 cycleshave any complaints about me camping LOL
Illician Lancers: and if i have a complaint about anyone the complaint post is there for that lol
obese pigeon: please. post a complaint
obese pigeon: besure to include the full og. if you dont, i will
obese pigeon: im not intefering in any way, just observing for administrative reasons
Illician Lancers: what admin reasons
Illician Lancers: mole are you complaining about me?
Illician Lancers: Mole are you reporting a bug?
Illician Lancers: no and no then no reasons
Mole: obese pigeon, I will post a complaint, please PM me how to record the log
obese pigeon: again, i dont owe you an explanation
obese pigeon: you may go into the log file and in your "logs" directory, you can find the logs
obese pigeon: there should be a log for every game played
obese pigeon: like i said, i am here for administrative reasons
obese pigeon: i dont owe you an explanation on what they are
Illician Lancers: sure you are, we just cant find any at all, you keep saying that to yourself OP maybe sounds cool to you
obese pigeon: it does sound cool doesnt it ^^
obese pigeon: but im not stopping you from playing, so please, go on gentlemen
Illician Lancers: you are
obese pigeon: how so?
Illician Lancers: idont want you in any of my games as an observer unless someone call you for a complaint or a bug check only 2 legitime reasons you can be here as an observer
Illician Lancers: mole and me didnt do any of them so you are bother me
obese pigeon: im afraid its not your call here IL, i can check on any game that occurs here
obese pigeon: whether or not i am called in
obese pigeon: any mod can
Illician Lancers: and you know what is the funny part Mole i dont give a shit but you are fucking Mole he is looking for the game vs me in the other hand i dont givea shit what you try to do i pause the game so if you want to check nothing be my guest i just dont play until you leave
Mole: this is becoming ridiculous OP, both players have asked you to leave
obese pigeon: ok goodbye gentlemen



[12:07] Illician Lancers [LC]: otherwise i dont want you in any of my games been admin or no, you want to check smashing i pause the game until you leave problem solve. You are in my NP for life for a reason, and i only talk to you when is an admin issue otherwise i dont even engage or bother to talk to you at all
[12:08] Illician Lancers [LC]: im saying you mention in a complaint we had long ago my family and since that day i dont want anything to do with you
[12:08] obese pigeon [CC]: ok IL, im going to ban you if you insist on this
[12:08] Mole [P]: As someone with no dog in this fight, it appears to me that you are abusing your role as a mod and deliberately provoking Illician Lancers
[12:08] obese pigeon [CC]: im going to give you a chance now
[12:09] obese pigeon [CC]: is this your stand?
[12:09] obese pigeon [CC]: that you will implement intentional delay on your opponent to stop me doing my job as an admin?
[12:09] Illician Lancers [LC]: a chance of what of getting finally you r dream come true and banned me from here for no reason at all whatsoever
[12:09] obese pigeon [CC]: that is not my dream
[12:09] obese pigeon [CC]: i've let you stay
[12:10] Illician Lancers [LC]: you have become an awesome admin OP provoquing players, that is a new skills admin can exercise, i need to ask jackal about that new fuction of admins
[12:10] obese pigeon [CC]: but if you stop me from doing my job, by inconveniencing another player, i wont stand for that
[12:10] Mole [P]: obese pigeon, I would like to ask you to pause this exchange until we have finished our game and I have had a chance to file a complaint to be reviewed by our community, this is needless provocation
[12:10] obese pigeon [CC]: so i ask one last time, is that your stand Illician Lancers?
[12:10] Illician Lancers [LC]: you are the one inconveniencing players
[12:11] obese pigeon [CC]: ok bye



Punishment here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10368&p=74635#p74635

While there is no need to, I will still discuss this incident with Jackal

[Illician Lancers]

Temp ban of Illician Lancers
Unread post by obese pigeon » Sat Sep 09, 2023 12:30 pm

For disrespect, attempting to coerce an admin, intentional delay and a threat to impose intentional delay on other players, Illician Lancers has been banned for 1 month.

Illician Lancers is welcome to return when the ban period expires.

However, further infringement of the rules, or threatening to infringe the rules, will be met with harsher punishment

At not time i disrespect OP. Never insulted you personally even if there are a few swearing words in the chat no a single of them are a personal insult. In the other hand you have disrespected me and Mole provoking me and created a situation out of nothing that suit your agenda against me.

wow i didnt know i was so powerful attempting to coerce an admin. No OP what i was attempting is getting you as a player out of any interaction with me been trying that for the last 3 or 4 years you are in my NP for live. I dont have any personal interaction in main channel or in PM or in any game you show up that im and the only interaction i have is as an admin. So better put your facts right and stop inventing situations that arent there.

Mole was ok with me delaying the game so as threats goes pretty weak from your side and if you are for legitimate reasons in one of my games you can be there for all i care 365 days in a row if you are there as a players which funny thing you are too because you play then sure i will stop playing until you leave. Also as threats goes in your own words pretty weak because if you leave the game resume 1 second after you have gone as funny did with Mole too.

Illician Lancers is welcome to do whatever Illician Lancers wants to do. I dont need your permission to return or no after the ban is finish.

I can tell you right now from this second until this server is close for good I hope never I will never keep playing a game that you come as an observer while you are a player and i will pause until you leave in the other hand if you are there as an admin checking a bug or checking a complaint against me or the opposite player you are welcome to stay as long as you need to check the situation.

So if you are trying to impose any kind of power over me and let me know that you are the man, the boss, the legend and that you have all the winning cards because you trying to hide in the rules while in reality you and me know we have both a beef against each other good luck with that. Unless I'm honest about it and try to put the distance between us while you keep trying to find ways to bother me and provoking me until finally you dream come true and you think you show me who is boss abusing your admin position. You couldn't been more wrong even if you try on purpose OP.

Enjoy the ban because i have better things to do that play in a server where someone with a beef against me in a power situation abuse his power to suit his agenda against me and sure said you dont have a beef against me but even Mole saw it clearly as the blue skies.

[Illician Lancers]

Funny thing you can't ask a mod to leave the game that much said so in the rules in the other hand nowhere in the rules said you cant ask an admin to leave the game. They are there to support the technical develop of the game and they aren't in charge of the game. Funny the rules doesn't mention what OP said the rules said and I don't read between lines rules if isn't written isn't there.

Also as violating the wasting of time rule I don't remember Mole complaining about it at all if he did I can't find the complaint post here at all and about my intention of waiting for OP as a player observing my game to leave to resume the game, as soon as he leave the game resume, so if he knows that and stay inside as an player observing the game no as an admin dealing with an admin issue he is the one making the game last longer by no leaving. Because no matter what happens my taken and how i feel about OP will no chance now or in a trillion years. He knows it, He knows i know it, and probably 80% of the server knows it too. No something i have keep in secret for the last 3 or 4 years.

2. Administrative rules

2.1. Server Admins

The Admins of this server are Spork, Tuco and Jackal (ingame names). Others with the admin symbol besides their game nick ("@") are granted this status in order to help with the technical development of the server, but are not in charge of the game.

2.2. Moderators

There are several players entrusted with the status of a moderator. In game you can tell them by the "*" besides their name in the players list.
Those are players picked and trusted by the admins. They help you if you got questions about the rules of this server and they enforce the rules. They also decide on a case by case basis where the rules are not 100% covering a situation. They do not make the rules, however they can issue ad hoc rulings when the need arises, to plug holes in the rule system.

They are held responsible to the admins. If you think you are treated unfairly by a moderator you can tell to the admins.

One advice: the moderators know the rules and more importantly their meaning better than you do. They are picked for their competence and trustworthiness. Consider this before bugging an Admin with your problem.

If you do disagree with a moderator's ruling, you are still expected to comply immediately. You may post a Complaint or Appeal after the fact on the appropriate forum, but arguing and/or attempting to appeal to other admins/moderators before complying may result in further penalties.

Moderators can observe all games without explanation or reason. It is part of their job to do exactly that and you are not allowed to ask them to leave.

Kicking a moderator from a host is a punishable offense.

Lying to a moderator (whether directly or by omission) is a punishable offense.

[Jackal]

I have been busy working on the new cycle, so I didn't learn about this situation until yesterday evening. I have now gone over the entire thread, talked to two of the people involved, and received written messages from the third. Here is my conclusion.

@Illician: As you highlighted in your last post (from the rules):

Moderators can observe all games without explanation or reason. It is part of their job to do exactly that and you are not allowed to ask them to leave.

While that doesn't say "administrators," that is mostly a matter of omission. It has always been the general practice on this server that administrators have moderator duties. And, as it says, they are allowed to be in a game without explanation, and you don't have a right to ask them to leave.

The fact that you were trying to make OP leave, whatever your reasons, is exactly what got the ball rolling in this situation. And doing doing so was, in and of itself, a violation of the rules. You don't get to label an admin's mere presence as a provocation. The default assumption should be that they are doing their job.

Just to be clear, the staff on this server all put a lot of blood, sweat, and tears into their job, and they do it for the benefit of other people. Without them, we would not HAVE a server. You are not required to like or get along with every staff member, but--as the rules state--you don't try to make them leave DED's, and you don't argue with them.

For those reasons I am going to leave the ban in place. I am, however, going to reduce the punishment to 2 weeks, but ONLY because I think 1 month is a big penalty for a first time offense (first time in a while, in any case).

Going forward, if an admin or moderator enters your game, don't start making demands that they leave. Doing so will definitely result in bigger penalties in the future.

The ban will now lift on Sat Sep 23 @ 12:32:40 UTC 2023.

My decision on this is final, and I am now closing the thread.