Complaint against TigerShark

[Repasy]

In my many experiences with TigerShark, I have noticed a trend in their behaviour which I believe is in stark violation of the rules:

3.8 Throwing games

Throwing games gives you an unfair advantage (cash/xp without any risk) at the expense of your fellow house members. This is against the rules.
Defining when a game is thrown or when it is ok to surrender is very tricky.

As a rule of thumb: if you don't try to fight, you are more than likely throwing the game. (So ask yourself honestly: am I runnig away coz i cannot win or because i don't like my opponents nose, his army or his camo pattern?)
If you are not sure, if you or your opponent is throwing a game, call in a moderator. In case of doubt they are the ones who find the right decisions.

I realize calling this can be tricky, but TigerShark has a history of surrendering games early, before they have taken any losses. In our latest game, TS threw their arms up when their Grasshopper slipped on pavement - unlucky, but something any veteran on this server should easily be able to overcome. This did not stop TS from making his trademark comment "That was such bs", and soon after he declared surrender despite equal damage being dealt on both sides.

Hours later, he proceeded to take the same army and ambush one of our newer, less experienced players, a move I'm sure they thought would be an easy win. I think this is a clear example that would violate the above rule, and from talking with a few of the other players on the server I know others will vouch that this is a common trend from TS.

The cherry on top: even after I allowed the easy surrender, they left game server early. That's another violation of special rule 8. I know that TS knows if you leave a game server early you can bug out the game payout mechanism. Again, not the first time I've seen them do that.

[TigerShark]

I did not "throw" the game, nor do I target less-experienced players.

I have gone out of my way to offer cancels to seawolf, to coach him in games, to offer advice after our games, and critique armies. I even offered for him to join the faction I'm in so we can do Sims next cycle. I deactivated yesterday and he requested I go active, play the game, then give advice after.

I had no idea if it was he or fahr going active. I just attacked.

Regarding throwing the game, I did surrender early and did say it was "bs." I wasn't angry, even. That's just how I talk in RL lol. My DRG-1G and WTH-1 were 20+ hexes away, behind blocked LOS, and couldn't have helped a surrounded Grasshopper. My OST-7J had a leg open with a Foot crit and required PSRs each turn. There was no way those two units would have made it out alive, as I made a stupid move. So... I offered surrender.

[Repasy]

I had no idea if it was he or fahr going active. I just attacked.

[15:08] New Game: :#1 Mock26[CS] is attempting a ROM Intervention on Kirkenlaard (Units: 3 Meks, 1 Vees, 2 Inf / BV: 4782). fahr[FWL] is defending (Units: 4 Meks, 2 Inf / BV: 4732)

[15:11] New Game: :#2 Repasy[FWL] is attempting a Policing Sweep on Canopus IV (Units: 2 Meks, 2 Vees / BV: 3479). Brown Adept[P] is defending (Units: 2 Meks, 2 Vees / BV: 3381)

[15:44] New Game: :#0 TigerShark[DC] is attempting a Ground Incursion on Oliver (Units: 4 Meks, 2 Inf / BV: 4605). seawolf509[FWL] is defending (Units: 4 Meks / BV: 4472)

[16:21] Finished Game: Comstar attacked and defeated Free Worlds League on Kirkenlaard (ROM Intervention).

Fahr was clearly already in a game when you attacked... so was I...

[Illician Lancers]

Well i have to said a couple things about this issue. I have play TS for years in Dominion and i have never saw TS through a game. What he does and I also do and no very often i have to said is if the situation is so bad like having an impossible situation, lots of crits hits, or the lots of a single unit that made you lost so much firepower and the others cannot recoup the disadvantage I just surrender. TS does the same also he likes to add the "this is BS" and other sentences of similar caliber around more by frustration that anything else. TS never surrender to save an unit or to made cbs, etc. He is HELO enough to have cbs forever and he can groom his hangar just by scrapping and buying whatever he wants. So yes he tents to do that but also no often and probably im the player here he do that the most and i know he isnt throwing the game on purpose.

About TS targeting the newvie Seawolf. Well Repasy Seawolf isnt a newvie in any approximation of any definition of that word whatsoever. Matter of fact seawolf is the single player in the last 4 or 5 cycles with more games played in the server and by a long shot of the 2nd player with more games. If after 4 or 5 cycles and all those games he is still playing badly. The word you are falling to use isnt newvie is bad or weak player. I also offer him some help and tutoring last cycle and this one. Even 3 cycles ago but 3 cycles ago he preferred back then crying and complaint that i was a better player and i knew all and he didnt. Now unless he is putting more interest in learning how to play which is a good thing.

[Nastyogre]

To quote Tuco on the complaint forum rules.

Only parties who are directly involved, who have direct evidence that is relevant, or moderators should post on complaint threads. Discussions and opinions of uninvolved players should be posted on the appropriate discussion forum.

Posting in violation of the above guidelines can result in your forum privilages being suspended. This may be your only warning.

Illican Lancers: Your post is mostly your opinion on Tigershark. You posted nothing that has to do with the specific incident. The info regarding Seawolf is tangential at best. Unless you have specific information on the charge of throwing a game you are given the instruction to move your discussion to the appropriate discussion forum and re-read the forum complaint rules. Do not post in this complaint without specific information.

Repasy: Please submit game logs for review.
Tigershark Submit game logs for review.

Insufficient information exists to determine if a game was thrown from this discussion. If there are any witnesses to the game, they can post here.

General ReminderIndividuals who do not have information specific to that game will keep their opinions to other forums and will not post here. Players should not respond to non-involved parties. Non-involved parties should not post in complaints.


Rules review:
Requesting surrender without casualties is not, in and of itself against the rules. If a good faith effort to engage was made and bad luck (or even probable luck when poor decisions were made) then throwing the game has not occurred. Surrender is not a given. If a unit is vulnerable due to a failed pilot skill check and a player wishes to surrender, they may. (damage will have occurred) The player potentially victorious may deny surrender. No explanation is needed. In a case like this, requesting ejection of the GSR or a statement of "I am sorry but I'm going to kill that" would be appropriate if you did not want to accept surrender. If Tigershark then behaved in an unsportsmanlike manner, that would be a violation of server rules.

Submit the logs for review if you believe there is evidence of an intentional action or of misbehavior. Making foolish moves and then trying to avoid the consequences by surrendering is not against server rules.

I will address the charge of "targeting." Nothing described is a violation of the rules. Throwing a game is. Using an army that was granted surrender hours later to play against any player (strong, weak or otherwise) is not a violation of any rule. If Seawolf was active, a player announces themselves open to any game. If you accept a direct challenge. That is your responsibility for accepting the game. By Tigershark's statement, Seawolf asked for the game. If necessary I can pull up the chat and message logs, but considering what is charged is not a violation of the rules, there isn't a reason to do so.

Summary: Additional information is needed to address the charge of throwing a game. The charge of "targeting" is dismissed as it does not violate server rules. Illican Lancers (and anyone reading this) is warned for violating complaint forum rules.

[Repasy]

See attached for two game logs.

2021-09-25 log is the one from yesterday I believe was thrown on purpose so he wouldn't lose any of his units. You can see from the end game report that no losses were incurred on both sides, and his remaining total BV was actually higher than mine. Frankly, I was tempted to not give him the early surrender, but after receiving his trademark "This is BS" comments so many times I just didn't want to deal with that whining for another hour.

2021-08-23 log is from another game we played, from the previous cycle. Once again TS ended the game with zero losses incurred on either side, and once again there's the trademark "This is BS" commentary.

[TigerShark]

The first one was frustration about a real-life event. And alcohol. The second was just a comment. Wasn't upset at all.

[Nastyogre]

Thank you I'll review them in the next day or so.
Repasy:Question: Is this your signature? This is a chat log? From who? When? Is this a chat log excerpt from a game with Tigershark?



__________: You gotta be F__KING S__TING ME
__________: THAT IS BULLS__T
__________: Like...what the f__kl do you even do with that?
Repasy: gotta roll with the punches
...
__________: Oh mother f__k this game
__________: THis is CRAP
Server: __________ wants to admit defeat - type /victory to accept the surrender at the end of the turn.
Repasy: ur sure? the game can turn at any point...
Server: Repasy declares team victory at the end of the turn. This must be acknowledged by all opponents using the /defeat command or no victory will occur.
__________: No, it really can't
__________: The luck was pure bulls__t and you know it
Server: __________ admits defeat.

[Nastyogre]

From Repasy in server chat.

[15:58] Repasy [FWL]: hey just saw your comment on the forum yes the signature is logs from a game with TS I redacted the name
[15:58] Repasy [FWL]: from one of the two logs i submitted
[16:00] => Repasy [FWL]: Ok. Thank you.

[Nastyogre]

I've read the game logs.
Findings: Tigershark complains when things don't go his way. Sometimes it is when improbable things happen. Sometimes it is when it is unfortunate. I have reviewed the Manifesto and rules. I do not find a rule against complaining.

Considering the quoted rule. 3.8
3.8 Throwing games

Throwing games gives you an unfair advantage (cash/xp without any risk) at the expense of your fellow house members. This is against the rules.
Defining when a game is thrown or when it is ok to surrender is very tricky.

As a rule of thumb: if you don't try to fight, you are more than likely throwing the game. (So ask yourself honestly: am I runnig away coz i cannot win or because i don't like my opponents nose, his army or his camo pattern?)
If you are not sure, if you or your opponent is throwing a game, call in a moderator. In case of doubt they are the ones who find the right decisions.

In neither of the logs posted is there any indication that Tigershark was not engaging. Far from it. In neither of the games would it appear that he is playing foolishly intentionally as might set himself up for a loss. Out of position and suffered from bad luck sure. But a player that is trying to lose a game to unload unwanted units or sabotage a faction would not react in the manner he did. Furthermore, the army in question from the 9-25 game was used later. So it isn't a situation where the player was using a game to scrap unwanted units. (Which is acceptable if an effort is put forth. Simply standing still in the open and not shooting would be throwing a game intentionally and if discovered would warrant a significant punishment)

The evidence provided does not support the charge of throwing games.

Was the complaint in good faith? Maybe? Barely? Mostly not. Tigershark complaining up a storm or surrendering once he is at a disadvantage is in no way against the rules. It should be obvious it isn't. That isn't throwing games, Repasy, not even close. Throwing a game intentionally is a serious offense. Players get banned for it. Tossing out that charge because Tigershark is something of a poor sport when things don't go his way is not appreciated. You should consider what has actually happened before saying that.

I have a "request" of each of you. Cool off. Play the game. When you win, say "Great!" When you lose say "Oh Gee Shucks." Take your axes and go grind them elsewhere if you have to.

Repasy: You are to change your forum signature. That isn't a request. It is harassing another player. Whether or not your redacted the name is irrelevant, TIgershark clearly knew it was directed at him. Carrying out some sort of personal "justice" for a player you have a beef with is not acceptable. I will take a dim view of any sort of "end around" or noncompliance.

Tigershark: You know as well as I do that this server isn't G or even really PG. That said, your tirade that was posted as Repasy's signature is a little much. It isn't good sportsmanship. You could complain like that to me all day long and I'd commiserate. Remember your audience. I'd probably not like it too much if a player I didn't know pretty well spouted off like that. Your explanation that you'd had a few drinks is an explanation but not an excuse. I suggest moderating that sort of response.

Repasy and Tigershark Please review the manifesto:

4. What we demand from players

We require players behave in a mature and reasonable way AT ALL TIMES. The more the feet stomping, the less our tolerance.


5. What we expect from players

Fairness, honesty, sportmanship, maturity, understanding that in the end this is only a videogame.

We expect that they are not annoying, that they understand what to do when they're being answered "stop it", "drop it" or "it's enough".

Really guys? I had to respond to this? Knock it off.

Summary: No throwing of the game occurred. Headhunting (if it happened) is not against the rules. Repasy is ordered to change his forum signature. Tigershark is counseled to ease up on the outrage for bad luck. Both players are counseled to ease up on the outrage in general.

Players may appeal my decision. If this were less obviously NOT a violation, I would have taken it to the mods for input. Appeals are handled by the admins.

I will give the players 48 hours to respond and request appeal. After that I'll lock the thread.

[Repasy]

Thank you for the fair review! I have removed my forum signature and will abide by the ruling, no appeals.

[TigerShark]

Understood and agreed. Thanks for your ruling.

[Nastyogre]

Thank you gentlemen. (I mean that, I wouldn't use the term if I didn't) Locking the thread as the matter is resolved. If for some reason you change your mind about appealing, you will have to repost in this forum.