Unbalanced Thunder mines

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Trinity_Daggers
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Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:01 pm

Unbalanced Thunder mines

Post by Trinity_Daggers »

So, this is a tactic which is legal, I will not dispute that. But it is also unbalanced in the server. As per the only books that have the rules in it I can find, The OLD compendium(pages 93-94) states an lrm 20( roll of 5 or more) off board arty or inf. The newest TAC ops( page178-179) , says it can only be removed by inf(both old and new book says they need a 10.) or LRM 20s with mine clearing ammo or off board arty. both needing 5 or better.( WHICH THE SERVER DOES NOT OFFER!) so mines are a bit one sided, long ago you could clear the mines here. and I do mean LONG AGO. like shortly after brought here. which was shortly before I left.

You got non jump mech with weak leg armor, you can only avoid them for so long as your opponent just keeps lobbing them at you.

Do I like mines? Yes, but if you are going to offer them, you need to allow the listed weapons to clear them also. Otherwise its just as broken as in the past of using J.Eds to ram legs off mechs.

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Nastyogre
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Re: Unbalanced Thunder mines

Post by Nastyogre »

The server used to limit Thunders to LRM 5's to limit abuse. Yes a few units (like the Behemoth) have multiple LRM 5's to lay out higher point fields but 5 or 10 point mines do not usually present a big problem. Has the limit changed?

Ares
Posts: 176
Joined: Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:05 am

Re: Unbalanced Thunder mines

Post by Ares »

The limit is still in effect.

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=10332

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Nastyogre
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Re: Unbalanced Thunder mines

Post by Nastyogre »

So then the question should be asked. Were the mines used improperly according to server rules if not, then that's one discussion. If so, then a different one.

I'm not looking to bring the mod hammer, we just need to understand the situation.

Graf Zahl
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Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2021 7:52 am

Re: Unbalanced Thunder mines

Post by Graf Zahl »

Maybe one should put all extra rules in the "Rules" tab, directly in the megWars GUI. Would be much more visible there than in a seperate forum.

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Nastyogre
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Re: Unbalanced Thunder mines

Post by Nastyogre »

We do not control the GUI per se and we have to balance development of the Megamek client and things done in Mekwars.

A special rules tab or some such is a good idea. I'm not sure the capacity for our developer to engage in coding this being an entirely volunteer effort and all.

obese pigeon
Posts: 983
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:51 am

Re: Unbalanced Thunder mines

Post by obese pigeon »

Trinity_Daggers wrote:
Sun Dec 04, 2022 4:48 am
So, this is a tactic which is legal, I will not dispute that. But it is also unbalanced in the server. As per the only books that have the rules in it I can find, The OLD compendium(pages 93-94) states an lrm 20( roll of 5 or more) off board arty or inf. The newest TAC ops( page178-179) , says it can only be removed by inf(both old and new book says they need a 10.) or LRM 20s with mine clearing ammo or off board arty. both needing 5 or better.( WHICH THE SERVER DOES NOT OFFER!) so mines are a bit one sided, long ago you could clear the mines here. and I do mean LONG AGO. like shortly after brought here. which was shortly before I left.

You got non jump mech with weak leg armor, you can only avoid them for so long as your opponent just keeps lobbing them at you.

Do I like mines? Yes, but if you are going to offer them, you need to allow the listed weapons to clear them also. Otherwise its just as broken as in the past of using J.Eds to ram legs off mechs.

I would like to understand more about the situation you encountered that motivated you to start this discussion

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Mock26
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Re: Unbalanced Thunder mines

Post by Mock26 »

As a Player I would like to see the minefield clearing rules implemented. I believe that there are three that would apply to our little part of the world:

Infanty
Artillery
LRM-20 (with specialized ammo)

As a Moderator I would be okay with allowing these.

I think the first question to answer is, "Are these rules already coded into MegaMek?" If the answer is Yes then it should be as simple as getting Jackal to agree to it and then "turning on" the relevant code. If the answer is No then that opens up an entirely new discussion.

= = == === ===== ======== ============= =====================

RE: Rules tab

The Rule tab can be customized with html/css code, and can host images. I believe there is a way to set up links but I am not sure how. I currently have something set up locally on my computer that shows the 'Mech hit location tables and the movement modifiers.

Image

So long as it is not too extensive I could whip up an html file to list out some information on this tab. Then all that needs to be done is for that html file (and any corresponding images, if included) to be included in the software package and for people to update when they next log in. Alternatively, this can also be set up locally. Players would just need access to the html file and know what folder to put it in.

Also, if anyone knows how to set up links for the Rules tab, please let me know! Straight up html anchor tags do not work.

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Nastyogre
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Re: Unbalanced Thunder mines

Post by Nastyogre »

Deep in my foggy Ogre brain, we had things discussed before about various rules. One concern has always been providing information that is copyrighted. Posting charts, images etc. While this community is not likely to attract CGL or Topps attention, the administration has held a pretty tight line on posting material that might infringe on the IP of CGL. (Or whoever owned Battltech at the time)

I think a rules tab that had a listing of server rules, options that work or do not. Optional rules in play etc would all be fine. We aren't pulling excerpts from books or they are very limited like a line for a rule in use.

We would want to be careful with posting charts and such. I know this is just an example, but I've seen posts taken down over the years and when there was a Wiki, some materials rejected or taken down because it was more likely to be viewed as infringement.

I'm not here to debate what is or is not infringement. Spork or other admins said it wasn't what they wanted to see so that was that. Rigtness or wrongness was immaterial.

I cannot answer if the minefield clearing rules are implemented.

I am not excited (though I play rarely) at having players load up heavy with thunder munitions and "turtle up" in heavy woods or other terrain lining clear approaches with mines. Clearing them more reasonably is a good thing, but it's not that common to use the means to do so. ( I bring this up because the other times I've seen mines discussed there are usually calls for opening them up)

Since mines are pretty limited here, not easily removing them seems reasonable. If they were not limited, allowing all means to remove them would be proper.

obese pigeon
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Re: Unbalanced Thunder mines

Post by obese pigeon »

Im pretty sure minefields are degraded when hit with arty in game. At least, thats what i saw a couple of years ago.

Can anyone confirm?

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