Current cycle feedback

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Spork
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Spork » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:35 pm

obese pigeon wrote:I think what Illician is saying is that the raid op as it stands does not seem to fit well in the current meta.

The payout is extremely low. I do understand that payout is perhaps low because the unit extracted from the factory is meant to be the payout in itself. However, the unit reward goes to the faction bays, which are already full of junk anyways, making it difficult to pull what you won from the fight.

I'm not actually suggesting the raid ops be altered, but as it stands now, there is almost no reason to play it.
The first unit is meant to go to the player...
Never had much, grew up with nothing
But the music, well it was something
Been down and out, I've been on top of the world,
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Tuco
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Tuco » Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:12 pm

I have increased the tick time from 450s to 900s and the slice time from 100s to 225s.

A tick is the time between the faction ranking reports and a slice the time between your flu Messages and relevant for production per tick.
When the injustice is great enough, Justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it.
None may stand against it.
It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment and lend its servant the power to pass sentence.
Know this: there is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them.
It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods.
Know that for ALL who betray Justice, I am their fate... and fate carries an Executioner's Axe.

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BigDuke66
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by BigDuke66 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 10:33 pm

Maybe enough was said about DB but I simply have to reinforce it from my perspective:
- It was already hard to agree to use all the rules that improve the game but that I now have to agree on DB what is just THE basic rule is simply bad. Alone from the perspective of making things obsolete like sensors and by this taking depth out of the game it's a pity that DB is not default.
If quick games are wanted couldn't some type of operation(recon) be added that only use a small or even smallest forces(like a single unit per side) to allow for a quick game?
I hope for a cycle with DB default again.
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Sadistic
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Sadistic » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:12 pm

Currently there is no point trying to have a conquer army. Most of the time you go active and get pounced on by a 2-3 unit army that far outweighs you since you need 3 levels in a 4 unit army to be conquer legal. I had a hermes 1B 3/5, panther 9R 3/5, Griffon 1N, 3/5, and Pheonix hawk 1 4/5 VS A Banshee 3E, Stalker 3F, and Crusader 3L with predictable results. There in fact isn't much point to having light mechs at all since everything I run into at low BVs is a 2 unit army of a heavy and a medium, and lights can't fit into higher BV ranges because of the current BV spread. My suggestion would be to A) make it so conq armies can't be attacked by less than 4 non infantry units B) allow people with conq armies to refuse fights against less then 4 units. c) Change back to 4 non infantry units minimum for any army(I'd prefer this one)
This can be mitigated by only playing high BV armies, but with the limited Bay space we have that isn't much of an option ATM

Fire and smoke isn't working the way I think you intended. Because it doesn't drift people know that you can start a fire and have a nice camping spot with +2 to hit against them, so they just light a fire and camp away. Either drift should be turned on so we can't predict where the smoke will be, of fire and smoke should just be turned off because it isn't making the game more fun or making games faster. If you light something on fire to drive out the inf/vees in it they just move into the nice predictable smokescreen you just made for them.

Sadistic
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Sadistic » Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:20 pm

In fact I've gotten rid of all my lights because I'm sick of fighting a losing battle at low BVs and I have 1 Assault, 3 Heavies, and 3 Mediums. That's my 40 bays full, and it doesn't exactly leave you a deep bench to pull from while trying to get a conquer army set up.

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Tuco
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Tuco » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:27 pm

I have enabled Smoke Drift.


I cannot go with what else you suggested, that has its own drawbacks each. Would enabling a Minimum Unit Speed for Patrol Attacker help?
When the injustice is great enough, Justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it.
None may stand against it.
It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment and lend its servant the power to pass sentence.
Know this: there is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them.
It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods.
Know that for ALL who betray Justice, I am their fate... and fate carries an Executioner's Axe.

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TigerShark
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by TigerShark » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:50 pm

The smoke rules in TacOps just aren't very good, IMO. If sensors can see past hills and buildings, identifying the location of targets, they should be able to see through a bit of smoke. But Catalyst is glacially-slow in responding to things like this.

Sadistic
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Sadistic » Thu Jun 28, 2018 4:55 pm

That might help in most cases, though this morning I played this: game #0 is attempting a Patrol on Dieron with WVR-6R [4/5], OR-S1 [4/5]; BV: 2488. Sadistic[K] is defending with Vedette Medium Tank (AC2) [4/5], Scimitar Medium Hover Tank (Standard) [3/5], Hunter Light Support Tank (Standard) [4/5], FS9-H [4/5], Motorized Mortar Platoon (Light) [4/5NAG]; BV: 2518 so unless attacker was min speed 6 you'd still see these.

Sadistic
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Sadistic » Thu Jun 28, 2018 5:11 pm

Of course that would also mean that armies made of 4 heavies/assaults won't be able to do patrols.

Does having a minimum of 4 units to an army really cause issues?

Sadistic
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Sadistic » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:13 pm

Well smoke is drifting now, but is only drifting north 3 hexes wide. Not sure if that's what you intended or not.

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Tuco
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Tuco » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:45 pm

Since there's no wind (you all hated weather) direction is rolled just once per game in the beginning.
When the injustice is great enough, Justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it.
None may stand against it.
It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment and lend its servant the power to pass sentence.
Know this: there is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them.
It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods.
Know that for ALL who betray Justice, I am their fate... and fate carries an Executioner's Axe.

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Tuco
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Tuco » Thu Jun 28, 2018 6:47 pm

Sadistic wrote:Of course that would also mean that armies made of 4 heavies/assaults won't be able to do patrols.

Does having a minimum of 4 units to an army really cause issues?
Only certain assaults would be excluded from patrols.
I do not want to limit games to 4 units because hangars are artificially small, which I do not want to change.
When the injustice is great enough, Justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it.
None may stand against it.
It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment and lend its servant the power to pass sentence.
Know this: there is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them.
It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods.
Know that for ALL who betray Justice, I am their fate... and fate carries an Executioner's Axe.

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BigDuke66
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by BigDuke66 » Thu Jun 28, 2018 9:23 pm

Tuco wrote:... (you all hated weather) ...
Delete all. :mrgreen:
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Gambit
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Gambit » Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:28 am

Raid is still a worthless operation.

You defeated DrBuckarooBanzai[D] on Quentin (Raid).
You've captured a unit [KGC-0000] and force produced a unit [STK-3F].
The PXH-1 survived the battle. Gunsho Hisa Yamamoto gained 51 XP. Earned 1 kill.
DrBuckarooBanzai recovered his GHR-5H. The pilot survived.
DrBuckarooBanzai recovered his JVN-10F Fire Javelin. The pilot survived.
DrBuckarooBanzai's Motorized Grenade Launcher Platoon (Heavy) was utterly destroyed. The squad was killed.
Your SDR-5V was utterly destroyed . Heishi Goro Kuramoto gained 46 XPHeishi Goro Kuramoto hiked back to base after fleeing his SDR-5V.
Your SDR-5V was utterly destroyed . Chu-i Emiko "Ouka" Yasuhiro gained 46 XPChu-i Emiko "Ouka" Yasuhiro hiked back to base after fleeing his SDR-5V.

Both units went to the House bays. So much to the first Unit is for the winner.

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Tuco
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Tuco » Sun Jul 01, 2018 7:29 am

I have updated two fields in the Raid Operation config. If this does not fix it, you'll have to report a mekwars bug.
When the injustice is great enough, Justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it.
None may stand against it.
It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment and lend its servant the power to pass sentence.
Know this: there is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them.
It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods.
Know that for ALL who betray Justice, I am their fate... and fate carries an Executioner's Axe.

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Tuco
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Tuco » Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:37 pm

Patrol now can only be played by units with minimum walk speed 4.
When the injustice is great enough, Justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it.
None may stand against it.
It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment and lend its servant the power to pass sentence.
Know this: there is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them.
It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods.
Know that for ALL who betray Justice, I am their fate... and fate carries an Executioner's Axe.

Ghost101
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Ghost101 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:02 pm

[22:36] New Game: :#1 Ghost101 is attempting a Patrol on Altenmarkt with VL-5T [3/5], FS9-K [2/5], FS9-M "Mirage" [3/4], SCP-1C [4/4]; BV: 4576. Shlomo[K] is defending with CN9-A [4/5], Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun (Laser) [4/5], WTH-1 [4/5], Hunter Light Support Tank (Standard) [4/5], Hunter Light Support Tank (Standard) [4/5], Hetzer Wheeled Assault Gun (SRM) [4/5], Mechanized Tracked Assault Rifle Platoon (Portable AC) [3], Mechanized Tracked Rifle Platoon (Assault Rifle) [4], Mechanized Hover Rifle Platoon (Assault Rifle) [4]; BV: 4592


something must change with the army setting rules, perhaps a limet for vees an infantrie.
One Vee or infantrie for two mecks
a Ghost can be seen at any time and at any place

Lumpi
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Lumpi » Mon Jul 02, 2018 10:55 pm

There is allready a restriction of 1 imf per 2 mechs or vees(APCs and VTOLs are excluded from that)
"was interessiert mich mein geschwätz von gestern!" Konrad Adenauer German Chancelor
"what do I care about my chatter from yesterday!"

Ghost101
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Ghost101 » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:00 pm

so the army i have post is against the ruling?
a Ghost can be seen at any time and at any place

Lumpi
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Lumpi » Mon Jul 02, 2018 11:37 pm

6mechs/vees and 3 inf

Legal
"was interessiert mich mein geschwätz von gestern!" Konrad Adenauer German Chancelor
"what do I care about my chatter from yesterday!"

Gambit
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Gambit » Fri Jul 20, 2018 11:21 pm

Think I´ve given this new cycle enough time and games.
Not mine. I´m out.
Problems were mentioned by other players above.

obese pigeon
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by obese pigeon » Sat Jul 21, 2018 2:50 am

I grinded through a fair number of games this cycle, but at some point I couldn't bring myself to continue when i just wasn't enjoying myself.

This cycle has seen some radical changes, and i applaud the courage and the imagination on the part of the admins to do so. I've always believed that change is life and stagnation is death. That said, change always comes with risk, and therefore doesn't always work out as planned.

The positives first:
1) FLU is gone - I like that FLU has been removed from the cycle, which is great. It's a redundant resource, and in previous cycles forced players to sit active for the purpose of farming it as opposed to getting into a fight - one of the lamest things about MMNet imo
2) Standardised Terrain - all planets have the same terrain. Several outcomes. Firstly, it encourages players to build and play more balanced lances that can take a fight in any terrain. Second, it significantly reduces the importance of being the attacker, which goes a long way to changing what Jackal termed the 'ambush' culture in MMNet.

All in all, great stuff. Just these two changes address some of the biggest problems plaguing MMNet for the longest time. It shows the admins are much more insightful than the players usually give them credit for :p

Now for the negatives (ie how i feel):
I just don't enjoy it anymore, it feels like a grind. I believe several aspects of the cycle contribute to this feeling.

1) 'forced' to play low bv - small hanger + low payouts means you need to play at low bv for a long time. Personally, I play and enjoy all bvs. It significantly increases my enjoyment significantly when i have a variety of bvs i can play at. I think some players have grinded through the low bv stage to the point that they have heavier units, but the small hanger and the high investment into heavy units means it becomes the only thing they can play is high bv.

I'll be blunt here, but i think its terrible, terrible design. Making players have to choose one bv and sticking to it because their hangers are too small.

2) It takes goddamn forever to get a game - i think due to the small hangers and the loss of players. Small hangers -> less lances -> less chance for a match. But its worse than that - imagine trying to match someone like me with a n00b low bv hanger, with someone like Sadistic, who i know has massed up. There just isn't going to be a match barring arranging a game. Or perhaps a match could be made where its 4 units vs his 2, but that becomes something of a mismatch as opposed to a match, considering i would almost certainly have a Saladin, his big fatties are gonna get backshot by AC20 once i win init twice in a row.

Even though now units can be in two lances, lets call it parent and child lance, the parent and child lance would not be that different in bv (assuming you are trying to construct a viable decent lance as opposed to just throwing stuff together), which doesn't increase the chance of a bv match that significantly.

3) Lance construction is now boring - relating to my earlier point about almost certainly having a Saladin. I think part of the fun about lance construction in cycles past was making decent lances out of bad or limited units. Cherry picking wasn't possible and you played what you got. That sometimes meant making the SHD-2D work, and work well. Now you just cherry pick the best stuff from the BM for the resources you have available. Saladin works really well because its cheap (100 cbills), common and replaceable, and is an 8/12 AC20. The intellectual exercise of making bad units work in good teams is now removed from the game.

So broadly, these are my reasons for not logging in. I just got tired of it all

Sadistic
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Sadistic » Sat Jul 21, 2018 3:59 am

I've massed up so that I don't have to play those 4v2 miss-matches.It has made it hard to play sol games since I can't field a 4 unit lance under 4.2k

obese pigeon
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by obese pigeon » Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:37 am

Sadistic wrote:I've massed up so that I don't have to play those 4v2 miss-matches.It has made it hard to play sol games since I can't field a 4 unit lance under 4.2k
Part of my point. now you can't play low bv games if you wanted to. The small hanger means you can't possibly play across the entire spectrum. Also, you probably have one, maybe two lances at most, given how tiny the hangers are. That's zzz in its own way since you are probably playing almost the same game every time

Sadistic
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Sadistic » Sat Jul 21, 2018 7:35 am

I managed to get 4 but there's not much variation between 3 of them ,and my 4th is 3 mechs and an inf.

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