Current cycle feedback

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JAWS
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Location: upstate NY, USA

Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by JAWS » Wed May 16, 2018 11:18 pm

What I meant by AFK farming is that I am at active, waiting for a game, while doing something else on the computer with mmnet in the background. I'm not watching any of the chats, hence, AFK. And I keep getting disconnected. I'm not sure if it's just me or others.



I do this also

obese pigeon
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by obese pigeon » Thu May 17, 2018 2:26 am

obese pigeon[L] is attempting a Tutorial on Solaris VII with BJ-1 [5/5NAG], WSP-1A [4/5], JR7-D [4/5], WSP-1L [4/5]; BV: 2448. Gen Lee Incompetent[SOL] is defending with HER-4K "Hermes III" [4/5], VL-2T [4/5], WSP-1L [4/5], LCT-1S [4/5]; BV: 2393


The JR7-D survived the battle and advanced a level. Master Sgt. Llora "Eagle" Ibanez is now 4/4 [Old BV: 875/New BV: 1006]. The WSP-1A survived the battle. Sgt. Anne "Hummer" Koch gained 36 XP. The BJ-1 survived the battle. Cpt. Yuriko Miyazaki gained 36 XP. The WSP-1L survived the battle. Recruit Shannon "Wally" Workman gained 36 XP. Net Pay: +296 CBills (Gross Pay: +296 CBills) You earned 20 Influence, 25XP and 1 RP. [Use RP]
You are immune to attack for 300 seconds. [Deactivate]



Can i suggest that we keep the old setting whereby units don't gain experience or level after a tutorial fight??

This will make players more willing to play tutorials

Spork
Mekwars Developer
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Spork » Thu May 17, 2018 8:29 pm

I can do that, but you need experience to run conquers...
Never had much, grew up with nothing
But the music, well it was something
Been down and out, I've been on top of the world,
World that keeps on spinning on a turntable.

Jackal
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Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:02 pm

Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Jackal » Fri May 18, 2018 3:38 pm

Spork wrote:Nobody has started with negative bays that I am aware of. I defected to all factions. Has P lost a bay planet in the meantime?

Periphery is going to be a *very* difficult landing spot. That is on purpose.

Just confirming that I started with -4 bays in P also. It was at the very beginning of the cycle, I'm not aware of any planets having been lost. I didn't actually mind that I started negative. I expected P to be difficult, and being forced to play what I had was refreshing.

That said, I still feel there need to be more starting units AND more base bays (to offset the extra units) to facilitate matchmaking. It's fine if people start with negative bays, but they should have more matchmaking options so it's easier to get battles without having to arrange.

Tuco
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Tuco » Fri May 18, 2018 5:02 pm

That's not necessarily the only way, you can also go for allowing units to be part of more than one army and this way maintain the survival-feel of the current setup.
When the injustice is great enough, Justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it.
None may stand against it.
It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment and lend its servant the power to pass sentence.
Know this: there is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them.
It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods.
Know that for ALL who betray Justice, I am their fate... and fate carries an Executioner's Axe.

Spork
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Spork » Fri May 18, 2018 7:47 pm

Tuco wrote:That's not necessarily the only way, you can also go for allowing units to be part of more than one army and this way maintain the survival-feel of the current setup.
That is a great idea I had not considered.
Never had much, grew up with nothing
But the music, well it was something
Been down and out, I've been on top of the world,
World that keeps on spinning on a turntable.

Karl Martell
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Karl Martell » Fri May 18, 2018 10:24 pm

I dislike lances with less than 4 (non inf) units. And since INF masks the number of units one is about to attack, there is no defense.

Fire and smoke was a waste of time years ago and still is a waste of time, since (some) players just ignite first and think later.

obese pigeon
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by obese pigeon » Sat May 19, 2018 2:50 am

Tuco wrote:That's not necessarily the only way, you can also go for allowing units to be part of more than one army and this way maintain the survival-feel of the current setup.
This will also increase the ease of game matching, which i feel is really a problem so far this cycle. But what is to prevent players from using their best unit in every single lance?

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Bloodknight
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Bloodknight » Sat May 19, 2018 7:45 am

Well, that multiplies the chance of that unit dying by the number of times it's used :D.

Tuco
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Tuco » Sat May 19, 2018 9:07 am

obese pigeon wrote:
Tuco wrote:That's not necessarily the only way, you can also go for allowing units to be part of more than one army and this way maintain the survival-feel of the current setup.
This will also increase the ease of game matching, which i feel is really a problem so far this cycle. But what is to prevent players from using their best unit in every single lance?
It's a valid concern proven in the past, the setting should be 2 armies. "TDR Wars - Attack of the Clones" must not return.
When the injustice is great enough, Justice will lend me the strength needed to correct it.
None may stand against it.
It will shatter every barrier, sunder any shield, tear through any enchantment and lend its servant the power to pass sentence.
Know this: there is nothing on all the Planes that can stay the hand of justice when it is brought against them.
It may unmake armies. It may sunder the thrones of gods.
Know that for ALL who betray Justice, I am their fate... and fate carries an Executioner's Axe.

obese pigeon
Posts: 852
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:51 am

Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by obese pigeon » Sat May 19, 2018 9:42 am

I find that removing double blind makes cityfights go MUCH faster.

Re Karl Martell's point on fire and smoke. Smoke camping really becomes a problem at the higher bvs (Think AWS and LGB). At low bvs it actually improves the game imo cos you can burn the campers out of heavy woods. Dont like the Manticore sitting in the light woods? Flush it out with fire. It throws the camper's game off completely. Besides, smoke does dissipate eventually. In the worst case scenario, just dont engage and wait for the smoke to clear

Serena
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Serena » Mon May 21, 2018 8:30 pm

obese pigeon wrote:I find that removing double blind makes cityfights go MUCH faster.
I find it makes games much slower, as people wait without line of sight until the perfect time to find backstabs. in double blind, at least one of their mechs had to keep LoS on you. now, they hide behind buildings, jumping cover to cover, until they surround you, and if youre using heavier mechs, there is nothing you can do about it

Erich
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Erich » Tue May 22, 2018 2:25 pm

After some testing i think the campaign is playable pretty good with the current settings.

possible tweaks:

- put DB back in
- reduce repair costs by 20-30%

otherwise i see no reason to drag out testing much more (can't take the waiting much longer ;p )

Goul
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Goul » Tue May 22, 2018 3:06 pm

Maybe i can add some of my cents to the "loosing Players" Debate here.

I am a Co-Founder of an Simracing Community that started 5 Years ago. We had our ups and downs and while you are at it, you learn somethings about getting and holding a Playerbase. I know Simracing is much diffrent from BT, but, there are some Basics that stay the same:

As long as you dont have a Playerbase that all share 1 Vision of how the Ruleset should work, Restrictive Rules and a Low Playerbase doesnt work. You gonna lose Players, for sure.

If you have an Aging Playerbase, you need to have Plannable Timeframes, or you lose those who have little Time. Those who have to Work and Familys just cant be bothered with timeframes that are "roughly 1-3 hours"
For those you need at least 1 Task that limits the Timeframe for that task to a Plannable default. You could go along the lines of "who has the highest BV after x Turns Wins"

If you have a low Playerbase, let the Players decide as much as you can let them. Some want DB rules? Programm a set of Tasks that set DB as the base rule, make a Check box for players that they can activate if they want to play DB and maybe add a DB tag to their name. Now those could play against each other with tasks that have DB as the base rule.

Or generate Special Tasks that have DB as standard and can only be defended by Armys with DB accepted activated, But, i would guess there are not that many DB enthusiasts that would justify the work to do it.

You only have to decide if the Work is worth the Outcome.
If you have to Code for a week to keep 2 or 3 Players maybe its not worth it.

You need to have something for beginners and Casuals. Like Tasks that dont hurt a beginner.

Encourage Vets to Mentor the beginners with Bonuses. The Coach SOL accounts was a nice idea, but, it doenst generate any "Profit" for the Coaches. Those who help others withour any profit are a rare find. Let the Vets generate some profit for their main accounts. now those Vets will search for Beginners because of the Profit.

Sometimes, People are to hardcore. Let those go. If they think they have it better elsewhere, let them. If 80% of your Playerbase is Ok with the Rules and 20% go nuts over 1 Detail, those 20% would only hurt the rest with their demands.

Lastly: you have to Advertise or you wont grow.

TigerShark
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by TigerShark » Tue May 22, 2018 4:35 pm

Unfortunately, and this is especially true in BattleTech, people don't know what they really want. There have been quite a few servers over time, many of them following the "give players what they want" approach. It usually ends up where the extremely vocal minority (those "20%" you suggest letting go in the next paragraph) get changes made because casual gamers "just want to log on and play". Many don't log onto forums and don't care what goes on. If they see something they don't like, they just stop playing and move on to something else. No rant, no explanation, just "where did so-and-so go?"

The simple fact is that the video game version was going to draw players away. MWO was fast gameplay. The HBS game is flashy and character-driven. Those who remain in MekWars are the die hards. The casual gamers are mostly gone. More or less changes won't help or hurt that number; it wasn't a factor to begin with, IMO. Once people get bored with the new game, they tend to trickle back in. Saw plenty of those in the past year.

Spork
Mekwars Developer
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Spork » Tue May 22, 2018 8:36 pm

I am going to target Friday evening, Pacific, for a full reset and official cycle start.
Never had much, grew up with nothing
But the music, well it was something
Been down and out, I've been on top of the world,
World that keeps on spinning on a turntable.

Illician Lancers
Posts: 146
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:34 pm

Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Illician Lancers » Wed May 23, 2018 7:34 pm

Serena wrote:
obese pigeon wrote:I find that removing double blind makes cityfights go MUCH faster.
I find it makes games much slower, as people wait without line of sight until the perfect time to find backstabs. in double blind, at least one of their mechs had to keep LoS on you. now, they hide behind buildings, jumping cover to cover, until they surround you, and if youre using heavier mechs, there is nothing you can do about it
And that is exactly how begins and ones they find out this is how they can win games this will started to be the normal tactics and a lot of players will get bore or started to use the NP and the NP is a great tool for sure but in a low community player base like this one if you use the NP you even limit more the options of finding games so no really the best solution in the long run.

Illician Lancers
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Illician Lancers » Wed May 23, 2018 8:03 pm

Goul wrote:Encourage Vets to Mentor the beginners with Bonuses. The Coach SOL accounts was a nice idea, but, it doens't generate any "Profit" for the Coaches. Those who help others without any profit are a rare find. Let the Vets generate some profit for their main accounts. now those Vets will search for Beginners because of the Profit.

Sometimes, People are to hardcore. Let those go. If they think they have it better elsewhere, let them. If 80% of your Player base is Ok with the Rules and 20% go nuts over 1 Detail, those 20% would only hurt the rest with their demands.
I have been a mentor without any profit at all here for a long long time. I teach and help a lot of players here. Probably I have been the player that have teach more players that any other player I know because the reality is that vet like to play and very few have the time or dedication to use the time they have to play to teach instead. That have been my way to help the community here since day 1. But I totally agree with you some type of reward/profit will made more easy to vet to expend their time teaching instead of playing.

Now about the second point. I totally see myself as a hardcore player a very flexible hardcore player but none the less a hardcore one and I don't see myself having it better elsewhere I think mekwars 3025 is the best and long lasting server for a reason but I have been around in many servers for many years and I can assure you when I raise an issue isn't because having that rule or taken it out is best for me I think in the community in the long run and no server I played with no DB have take it well in the long run the no DB for so many reasons and Serena have mention already the main issue a little further up, but don't take my word for it just let the cycle go on and find out how long many of the games are because of the no DB in relation with the same games at the same bvs with DB.

Another thing here for many many reasons you need to be careful when you made numbers because those % can be very deceiving true you can have 80% of players that go well with anything but in those 80% can be a lot of casual players, players that maybe play 1 or 2 times a week or passing players that stay for a little while and move on, while in the 20% hardcore players you maybe have a steady base player community of very active players, that play very frequently if you run out the 20% you can find out that in reality those 80% players that go with everything doesn't use the server as much as you can imagine and find out how an 80% goes down pretty fast plus the lost of the 20% so you are losing in the long run more that you are keeping in. That are my two cents on that.

Goul
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Goul » Thu May 24, 2018 4:39 pm

I think we define the word hardcore slightly diffrent. for, to define someone as hardcore goes along the lines of:" i think this is right, so, this is the only right thing"

As i mentioned, i have only expirience in Sim-Racing Comunity leadership. the first community i was an Admin in got killed in a Dispute between "i want it ultra realistic" hardcorers and the rest of the Comunity.

In the Comunity i co-Founded, it nearly killed us. took the fun out of the racing and made it work. We had to backtrack quite a bit and find a Balance, and, as i mentioned in my Post above, had to invent diffrent stuff for diffrent kind of folks.

For the DB argument: when i would play DB ( and i havent played DB often ) i would be much more carefull then now. Which would lead to my conclusion that it would take longer to finish battles. maybe for those who are good at playing DB it would be the opposite?

Illician Lancers
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Illician Lancers » Thu May 24, 2018 8:31 pm

Goul wrote:I think we define the word hardcore slightly diffrent. for, to define someone as hardcore goes along the lines of:" i think this is right, so, this is the only right thing"

As i mentioned, i have only expirience in Sim-Racing Comunity leadership. the first community i was an Admin in got killed in a Dispute between "i want it ultra realistic" hardcorers and the rest of the Comunity.

In the Comunity i co-Founded, it nearly killed us. took the fun out of the racing and made it work. We had to backtrack quite a bit and find a Balance, and, as i mentioned in my Post above, had to invent diffrent stuff for diffrent kind of folks.

For the DB argument: when i would play DB ( and i havent played DB often ) i would be much more carefull then now. Which would lead to my conclusion that it would take longer to finish battles. maybe for those who are good at playing DB it would be the opposite?
Well you are right my hardcore have nothing to do with your hardcore :twisted: I always move in a big grey area when come to any rules, i always made it work for me in the long run so I'm not in the I'm right period. I'm a hardcore player because I'm a true fan of BT and megamek, I like the combine arms armies you can do at any bv, the realistic that the DB brings, etc, etc, I don't care the era or the tech level I play all using anything and i find that any unit even the ones that everybody classified as bad ones have a place in the right army or in the right bv.

For the DB i personally don't have an issue playing with no DB I play at the same level with DB that without DB what I despite of the no DB and why i decide no to play this cycle and is already happening is the amount of time a high % of the players try to play games that should be done in 1 hour top, because they don't risk, cluster together waiting for the other one to risk, don't made natural move with units because they see exactly where all the enemy units are, so they pull back and I'm a player which i don't mind play longer games, anyone that have play vs me enough know that i don't mind to play 1 hour or 6 a single game but have to be a real game. Because when i play i have a huge amount of time to play really huge so if a guy playing with no DB pull back, i pull back, if he extend a game that should last 1 hour to 2 I extent it to 3 or 4, he made it boring for me i made it hell for him. Therefore isn't fun for anyone and I'm not talking about players like Juice14, Guillotine X, Lumpi, and nearly all the vet core those guys go for it so games aren't boring even with no DB I'm talking about the big % of the rest of players. I'm one of the top players of the community the issue isn't that I will don't win a huge amount of the games is the amount of time players made last games of 3k or 4k, etc. and when they made finally grow the hangars and can play games of 5k or 6k well those games will last even longer especially in maps like city or hills, or forest. So no point for me to play something that can take 2 hours top into a 4 or 5 hours. :roll:

Ceorl
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Ceorl » Fri May 25, 2018 12:35 am

Those who help others withour any profit are a rare find. Let the Vets generate some profit for their main accounts. now those Vets will search for Beginners because of the Profit.
Amen. The server would benefit from encouraging crappy players (rather than simply penalizing good players when fighting seals as was done in the past). Bad players like myself have always been mere mulch for the good players to use in building their hangers of doom. It'd be nice if I felt like I could possibly make a positive contribution here (though to be fair to the server, I can't think of any competitive game which really cares about the crappy players. Hell, I tried DOTA and got banned because I suck.).
Clans? I call you by your true names: Scum of the Star League, traitors of free will come back to lord over freedom-loving people. Come ahead, you steel-eyed robots! Come ahead and taste what a million like-minded people think of you and your damn Clans.

Lumpi
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Lumpi » Fri May 25, 2018 5:02 pm

The issue of vets helping newbies or like Ceorl said, crappy Players, is not the Topic here^^.
If you want to discuss Tools or encourage teaching behavior pls open a seperate Topic.
Apart from tha,t I know I am eager to teach, if listened to ;),and some others too. If one wants battlefield Reviews or similar feel free to ask me to watch games and Tutor after the moves or after game(no backseatdriving^^).
"was interessiert mich mein geschwätz von gestern!" Konrad Adenauer German Chancelor
"what do I care about my chatter from yesterday!"

Stereg
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Stereg » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:54 am

After playing to about 1300 xp this new cycle, I feel that vehicles in general are unbalanced. With the low economy and limited bays, playing with 5-8 units is the only way to be competitive currently, with either multiple lrm vees or saladins. This sort of play isn't fun or interactive in the least. I feel that knowing that if you lose 1 initiative phase, you either have to move completely LOS or have a unit ripped to shreds is not fun.

As for ways I could think of to adjust the cycle for the future, I feel that Saladins in particular should be looked at as a 8/12 hover with an AC20 that is frequently on the BM for 100cbs is too powerful and under priced. I know others I have spoken with have stated that they have lost every game they have played vs a Saladin so far this cycle. As for unit numbers in armies, I don't know if there's anyway to combat this issue. I do not work with the actual code, nor do I have an programming experience so I can't comment on the options available there.

I will say that the beginning of the cycle and the even unit games I have played have been very engaging and fun, while also pretty quick compared to previous cycles I've played with double blind. So I really do enjoy this cycle. But I see no reason to play if I'm gonna have to slog through a game where the opponent has 5 units and 2 inf (1 of those being an AC10 field gun), while I am forced to rush it or play griffin jump games.

/my2cents

Illician Lancers
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Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Illician Lancers » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:15 am

Stereg wrote:After playing to about 1300 xp this new cycle, I feel that vehicles in general are unbalanced. With the low economy and limited bays, playing with 5-8 units is the only way to be competitive currently, with either multiple lrm vees or saladins. This sort of play isn't fun or interactive in the least. I feel that knowing that if you lose 1 initiative phase, you either have to move completely LOS or have a unit ripped to shreds is not fun.

As for ways I could think of to adjust the cycle for the future, I feel that Saladins in particular should be looked at as a 8/12 hover with an AC20 that is frequently on the BM for 100cbs is too powerful and under priced. I know others I have spoken with have stated that they have lost every game they have played vs a Saladin so far this cycle. As for unit numbers in armies, I don't know if there's anyway to combat this issue. I do not work with the actual code, nor do I have an programming experience so I can't comment on the options available there.

I will say that the beginning of the cycle and the even unit games I have played have been very engaging and fun, while also pretty quick compared to previous cycles I've played with double blind. So I really do enjoy this cycle. But I see no reason to play if I'm gonna have to slog through a game where the opponent has 5 units and 2 inf (1 of those being an AC10 field gun), while I am forced to rush it or play griffin jump games.

/my2cents
Then scrap the GRFs and buy other more flexible units or more vees. Problem solve Stereg. :wink:

Illician Lancers
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Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:34 pm

Re: Current cycle feedback

Post by Illician Lancers » Tue Jun 05, 2018 8:21 am

Karl Martell wrote:Fire and smoke was a waste of time years ago and still is a waste of time, since (some) players just ignite first and think later.
I already played several games where the player ignite fire inside cities to half the dawn city then obviously fire spread and you have no fun games at all.

Another issue is that smoke doesn't dissipate after the fire ends which is very odd. Now we have the typical camper changes settings instead of stay in the woods, they burn the trees and stay in the smoke forever which doesn't dissipate and if he is in danger in that hex he move to the other adjacent Heavy smoke hex and problem solve. I think that fire and smoke should be banned or fixed that the smoke dissipated one turn after the fire is out otherwise is going to give more issues that fun.

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