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 Post subject: Re: Outside The Box: Crazy Incentive To Level
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 9:55 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:38 am
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That is my point thank you Spork. Its level your armies or play aero.

Hence my point that you are forcing the players to do something.

Also what happens at the beginning of the cycle do we sit there and stare at each other hoping someone pulled a leveled pilot and can attack us enough time to level our own pilots.


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 Post subject: Re: Outside The Box: Crazy Incentive To Level
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:06 pm 
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I think this would require the creation of a resource op - a patrol or raid of some sort, so the start-of-cycle thing could be avoided.

But requiring levels for initial land exchange isn't forcing anything.



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 Post subject: Re: Outside The Box: Crazy Incentive To Level
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 11:21 pm 
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Not saying you should do this here as an absolute suggestion, but I have it set up in a similar fashion.

Assaults are high-land-gain ops which are required to gain land on important planets (factory worlds, or you can set an Op flag). They require a minimum army skill sum of 8.3 to launch. So basically, a "victory point" planet on MMNet would need to be gained by a skilled army. This is staggered into "Invasion," which then requires a much higher skill sum for Capitals, but gives a massive land gain (exchanging a normal planet between owners in one hit).

Regular ops (Skirmishes) can be performed against "normal" planets which don't grant victory points toward the cycle win for your faction. But they don't have a minimum skill sum. You can do this all day if you want and never have to level pilots.

You can keep Aero as a beachhead for the factory planets this way, but still allow 4/5 armies to do some attack/defend.


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 Post subject: Re: Outside The Box: Crazy Incentive To Level
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:52 pm 
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We are also overlooking that the server randomizes pilot level and veteran and green pilots can start. This could be adjusted to be more frequent if players are concerned that they would not have adequate leveled units.

Interestingly, if Green and Veteran pilots were nearly as common as "regulars" then we would see many fewer 4/5 forces and more armies fielding positive and negative levels.
The resource op, like the old hit and runs are an interesting solution Spork. Even a good idea. Hit for resources, level the pilots. Build up a hangar? THEN hammer the poop out of your opponents.
The other option is a "probing" attack that gains land but a really insignificant amount. Like 1%. So probe, probe, probe, STRIKE!. Getting leveled units would be valued because you'd have to have them to hit worlds.

Aero is just a way to pave it for "less experienced" forces.

Increasing aero use is probably not bad. Operation tags would be more interesting as an inducement. Win an aero op and get to launch a special operation that gives an advantage. I know there are tags available and Spork has considered such things in the past.

I'm still not wild about complicating the mechanisms for attack, but a three tier approach isn't overly complex. (Probe, Incursion, Assault or Raid, Incursion, Assault) When I started here, we had Hit and Runs (designed for the fast light units early in cycles) Patrols and Conquests.We all worked it out and it wasn't too big a deal.

A reasonable proposal should get a spot in front of the Council and the best course of action can be determined.


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 Post subject: Re: Outside The Box: Crazy Incentive To Level
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:53 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 15, 2009 3:38 am
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I still have to ask the question why is pilot leveling GOOD.


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 Post subject: Re: Outside The Box: Crazy Incentive To Level
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 5:12 pm 
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It's not. It is tremendously boring to just play with 4/5 pilots. It's also part of the game. We play a campaign, it's part of the idea of a campaign.

The BV system is skewed and it's a way to get people to be equally handicapped by the system.


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 Post subject: Re: Outside The Box: Crazy Incentive To Level
PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 6:13 pm 
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Chaser wrote:
I still have to ask the question why is pilot leveling GOOD.


The concept of "forcing players" to do things works both ways. You don't want to use leveled units, so you're advocating an environment that becomes a safe space for your mode of play. That "forces" other players to only use 4/5, or risk being at a competitive disadvantage. There may be people who want to use something other than 4/5s, but feel there's no adequate reward for taking on the challenge. You're handicapping yourself for the same pay you'd get for an all-4/5 army. So... people don't use levels very often as a result. That's why some advocate for the return to auto leveling; variety and 'balance'.

There are other decisions based on this logic as well. It's the reason build tables are 100% random here. If you allowed people to field whatever they wanted, would you truly ever seen a VLK-2Q? SHD-2D? Or would it just be stock armies of WVR-6Ms and WHM-6Ds running around? People will naturally gravitate toward an advantage, whether it be ammo-less 'Mechs, (lack of) pilot levels, pilot skills pertaining to their unit, terrain choice, whatever. But managing this creates a challenge for everyone and gives people a reason to keep coming back.

Unfortunately, not everyone will like every change. Heck, there are people who stopped playing because the rules changed from what they were in 2006. But there are probably as many who stick around because of the changes. Then there's nut jobs like Nasty Ogre who'll take any challenge and keep playing. ;-) We'll never understand these strange folk... jk


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 Post subject: Re: Outside The Box: Crazy Incentive To Level
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:06 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:58 am
Posts: 58
I have no Clue of that could work with the current codeing or if it would be simple to Code or not.

Anyway i think the best Solution would be a middle of the Road approch. If it would be possible to give the system the ability to Force a Level or skill on the Pilot like in the autolevel scenario. But the player can Choose what will Level / which skill the Pilot gets.
It would feel native since everyone will get better with Training and would allow players to keep the feeling that they are the ones that are in control. Sure you could bet that all HBKs will only Level gunnery but on the otherhand who would ever Field an 4/3 GOL???

For me atleast the fun increased a lot since i don't be forced to See the majorty (and yes it felt that way) of my ARCs Level to 4/4.

My 2 Cent

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