Complaint against Obese Pigeon.

Report here bad behavior and rule breaking

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obese pigeon
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Re: Complaint against Obese Pigeon.

Post by obese pigeon » Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:02 am

Hi Nasty, i've sent the log to your email

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Nastyogre
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Re: Complaint against Obese Pigeon.

Post by Nastyogre » Sun Mar 10, 2019 12:23 am

Received, thank you.

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Nastyogre
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Re: Complaint against Obese Pigeon.

Post by Nastyogre » Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:02 pm

I have reviewed the log and presented my findings to the moderators. I'll give them three days for commentary and discussion then vote.
Results will be here.

Reviewed will be this question:

1. Was IL's complaint in good faith? (always a question in any complaint)
2. Did OP violate server rules to win the game in question by not engaging or playing in a manner which did not respect his opponent's time?
3. Did either OP or IL violate server rules in their discussions with each other?

I'll answer the 3rd . I found it unlikely, but possible. I find no evidence that either engaged in overtly disrespectful discussions or remarks. The mods will consider 1 and 2 as those are judgement calls.

Expect and answer by March 14 unless the mods requires more time to deliberate.

Illician Lancers
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Re: Complaint against Obese Pigeon.

Post by Illician Lancers » Mon Mar 11, 2019 11:23 pm

Nastyogre wrote:
Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:02 pm
1. Was IL's complaint in good faith? (always a question in any complaint)
Just to clarify point one and I'm not trying to argue here at all. I never complaint ever about anyone play style or tactics and I have been here for a long time. I do complaint when things get personal or think someone is targeting me in particular for no a good reason unless under my point of view. So for me to complaint against how OP played that game I can assure you two things I complaint in good faith because that was not way to conduct the game at all and only because he wasted 3 extra hours no looking to engage and snipping. Snipping is a great tactic for some units and I have nothing against it but I do against wasting time and no engage in combat.

I'm curious to see the result of the decision. I already told Tuco to deleted my account and details. Still waiting to see when that will happens. As I said to Tuco when I ask him to deleted my account OP piss me off enough for me to really and I mean really play my worst and do the worst armies you can face here especially with no BV spread. So because i decide that no even me will have fun that way, doesn't matter how many victories i will get that way. I play for the challenge no to win at all cost. I decide to leave the server and move on. It has been fun especially vs my regular opponents and for those that I teach and train I wish them many victories and lots of fun.

Kind regards,

Illician Lancers

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Nastyogre
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Re: Complaint against Obese Pigeon.

Post by Nastyogre » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:46 am

If you've decided to quit, why did I spend more than an hour reading a 71 turn game log, take notes and present them to the moderators? It remains to be seen if OP did anything wrong or played in a manner to waste your time. You may have just wasted mine. As a business owner, my time is rather valuable. I took the time to address this because of the scarcity of moderators with the low server population. I'm not very happy if I took that time for nothing.

The question of whether or not a complaint was in good faith is always up for consideration, always. Players have engaged in frivolous complaints and been punished for it. Did you make the decision to leave and then post the complaint?

You have a new question to answer. Did you make this complaint knowing you had no intention of continuing to play here?

Illician Lancers
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Re: Complaint against Obese Pigeon.

Post by Illician Lancers » Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:39 pm

No I post the complaint before i decide to leave. I give a second chance to OP and try another game with him. First thing I told him and that was in main channel was that if he was going to play the same way we can cancel, he said He didnt have any NIght Hawk in this army like that was the boom or something then he show in deployment a nice Mon 66B with another ER LL, sure true isnt a NIght Hawk is even worst more faster, so that part was his already using deception on me and after i lose the inf to protect my rear i decide to quick the game because he was using his army in the same way still that was very early in the game but i wasnt looking to waste another 5 hours for the sake of victory. Then I put OP in my NP and then I really got piss off with OP. Putting together the first game and the little deception in the second really bring out of me my worst. So I send a PM to Tuco explaining that and telling him I was so piss off to play my worst in the server and that can be really bad and excuse my language here fucking boring as hell for everybody including myself. Sure I will win a lot more than now and my armies will be more nasty and with no bv spread well you do the maths. I already saw some armies that were a little off and that is me been polite like a longbow 7Q with 4 vees and 1 inf and the vees were scorpion vee, chevalier, vedette and something else i dont remember in a game of 4k the A unit was already 1.6k leaving 2.4k more or less for 4 vees and 1 inf. So because i know myself and I know where this was going to end. I decide to leave the server and move on instead of making games long, tedious, boring and frustrating for everybody else including myself.

Nasty even me leaving the server it isn't a bad thing that you and the mods review the complaint because if that is OP ways I think they are wrong and there isnt enough players to freaking boring the hell out of them. I dont think you wasted your time this is something that OP openly admitted is going to do again and again if the same conditions presented themselves and those conditions happens more frequently that what anyone want to happens. RNG is RNG.

obese pigeon
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Re: Complaint against Obese Pigeon.

Post by obese pigeon » Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:32 am

Illician Lancers wrote:
Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:39 pm
because he was using his army in the same way still that was very early in the game but i wasnt looking to waste another 5 hours for the sake of victory. Then I put OP in my NP and then I really got piss off with OP.
My fault again huh?

Look at the bigger picture, learn how to handle your own emotions and curb your vindictiveness. I'm not your mommy, neither are the mods and the admins.

Im also very curious how you came to the conclusion that i was playing the "same way"? You know, if you want to explain what happened, you should provide full detail and context, rather than just write something to show that the whole world is against you.

How do you know i was playing the "same way" when you surrendered in turn 3? Didn't see the need to mention that did you? Leaving out important facts to make me look bad? You asked for surrender in turn 3 immediately after the first aimed arty took out your field gunners and heavy support laser platoons - didnt even want to go to the fire phase.

Maybe you guessed the way i intended to play from my lance composition? Here it is:

HBK-SP 3/4 (Main killer), CRB (secondary killer), Mongoose Royal (harasser/flanker), WSP-1L (init sink/jumping spotter)

Looks pretty balanced to me. Your lance was:

JM6-S 3/5, Urbie 3/5, Striker, Scorpion SRM, Scimitar (with LRM 15), AC5 Field gunners, Mechanized Heavy Support Laser

The game i intended to play was to split my lance into two, flank your "sit and shoot" lance with the CRB and Mongoose while pressing you from the other side with HBK and WSP. Classic "flank and spank".

You must be a genius to know i'm going to play the "same way" when you surrendered in 3 turns :)

Illician Lancers
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Re: Complaint against Obese Pigeon.

Post by Illician Lancers » Wed Mar 13, 2019 11:55 am

OP I said i surrender when the game still early on in his develop is there in writing and i said too after i lost my inf I assume turn 3 is inside the definition early on in the game and I didn't omitted anything. Maybe is good that you arent my mommy sure you are more ugly and need glasses to read properly. Early on in the complaint you said I didnt mention too that you offer me surrender when my BLR was legged and I said no i wanted it destroy , bla bla bla and was mention in the middle of the first complaint post. When I made a mistake I apologize for it. You still have to apologize for saying and accuse me of something that wasnt true. When was there writing for everybody to see. No that I expect or give a shit about you apologizing about you making mistakes and taken then like a decent person. That will be too much for you. It is easy to keep going on about how mistaken Im, how a bad player Im, how I complaint for nothing, how my armies arent balance, how bla bla bla, etc etc. Again I dont give a shit or care about what you think or write but I will be very careful if I was you to mention again my MOMMY ( word, context, or just definition) or anything related with family. I do tent to get personal when family or things related to family are mention.

For all I care you could use your army as a landscape develop working crew. You can said whatever you want about how you will had use your army and how you design your army and how you clean all the shit that you intended to do with your army the true is ones in a game what you design to do with an army, what you opponent let you to do, what RNG let you to do or made you do and what you ended doing are very different things example the 5 hours game and 71 turns you play snipping with that super balance army that you said you bring.

I control pretty well my emotions thanks and If I was vindictive like you said I will had not complaint and give everybody a hard time again and again and again and in a way no one could complaint against me. That will be me been vindictive. Instead of me been vindictive I ask Tuco to deleted my account and I move on. How that is been vindictive? Nasty ask me to explain when i decided to leave the server and I explain to him when, i decided it, when and why and Those are my reasons I dont need you to agree with then, i dont give a shit about what you think about then. I was explaining to Nasty what he ask me and in case of doubt in this case Tuco is there to confirm I send him that PM in main channel after that second game. I already write what I said to Tuco so how is that me been vindictive again? Maybe your definition of vindictive and mine are different but when I get vindictive I go after that person to damage it in any possible way and made his life a living hell, me leaving the server because you really piss me off after that fucking 5 hours game and 71 turns snipping and then with that little deception that in this army I dont have a NIght Hawk and then yoi bring a mon 66b with ER LL and 8/12 speed. Sure call me crazy but I went all vindictive on you and decide to leave the server that will teach you a hard lesson LOL. Definitely you are looking the wrong dictionary for the definition of vindictive but eh what Do I know? Im just Illician Lancers need you and the mods to be my MOMMY and guide me taken my hand. Complaint for no reason and Im a very vindictive person. Making you look super bad. Like I need to do that at all. You dont need help for that OP you are making a great job all by yourself. Well done.

Now the only opinion that Im interested right now is Nasty about the original complaint and what the mods decide to do about it and of course for Tuco to deleted my account now I hope after the decision is taken I want to know what Nasty and the mods decide.

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Nastyogre
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Re: Complaint against Obese Pigeon.

Post by Nastyogre » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:23 pm

I said enough of your bickering. Each of you are now openly disregarding my polite instruction.

OP : You should not have responded to anything he posted. I don't care what he says. I asked you to stop. (which when I'm wearing the mod hat, means I'm not asking) Now, be quiet.

IL. Thank you for your answer. Everything past this phrase... "No I post the complaint before i decide to leave." Is irrelevant except that you restarted the argument and baited OP into response, which he of course took and insulted you and now you have done it back.I don't care what he says. I asked you to stop. (which when I'm wearing the mod hat, means I'm not asking) Now, be quiet.

Nothing that either of you have said after my most recent question to Illican Lancers is relevant, except for the part that answered my question. Had that answer been different I would have certainly ended the complaint review and enforced consequences for wasting my time. Frankly, I wouldn't even taken the time to read this most recent prattle except now I need to figure out if I need to consider consequences for not following my instructions and openly insulting each other.

In case you were wondering about my initial request to cool off and stop arguing.
Nastyogre wrote:
Wed Mar 06, 2019 5:26 am
OK, I think we know your positions. I don't think we need the flame war drug out. As you have each acknowledged there is no "rule" broken. Except maybe one, manifesto violation for not treating your opponent with respect. I'll note each of you is treading that line here, OP may have done so in the game. If you have any more meaningful points to make, rather than just demonstrating your dislike for one another, do so.

The moderators can chat a bit and you both can cool off, if you would, pretty please.
The bolded parts mean no more arguing with each other. Argue with me if you like, but that won't be a very long one, I have no patience for it.

I don't have forum moderator power here, but I do have a very short line of communication to people that do. This is your one warning. I don't need anybody's permission to enforce my "requests" and players that think they can say anything they like to staff have a bad time of it. I tried it once... once. It went badly for me.

A little word of advice, if you want somebody to make a decision in your favor, or even be impartial, it's best not to antagonize them by ignoring what they ask you to do. In the US, it's called contempt of court. Judges here have rules to follow. I don't, I can ban each of you for life if I choose. That would be overturned certainly, but vacations of a month or more are common enough when staff is ignored or treated disrespectfully. So your argument is ended. Here, and now.

Unless either of you has relevant information, I wouldn't post here again. Unless you would like to apologize to me for ignoring me and pissing on my shoe.

Each of you will now get to have me decide what to do about your outbursts.

EDIT: I DO HAVE FORUM MODERATOR POWERS. THREAD LOCKED TO PREVENT FURTHER OUTBURSTS, DO NOT CONTINUE THIS IN ANOTHER THREAD.

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Nastyogre
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Re: Complaint against Obese Pigeon.

Post by Nastyogre » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:45 pm

Each of you go read the Manifesto, please.

It will then be apparent where you two have gone astray.

Find it here. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=106
You are both in violation of 4, 5 and 9 and have forgotten #7.

Let me know when you would like to apologize to me, and to each other.

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Nastyogre
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Re: Complaint against Obese Pigeon.

Post by Nastyogre » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:16 pm

Ruling: Vote was 1-0 No other moderators voted. I will note that the admins did comment but as this is handled by the mods, admins do not vote. Of course they can do anything they like.

1. Was IL's complaint in good faith? (always a question in any complaint)

Yes, IL, filed the complaint in earnest. Unless you look at the game from the outside it certainly provides the appearance that OP might be toying with him.

2. Did OP violate server rules to win the game in question by not engaging or playing in a manner which did not respect his opponent's time?

No. He did not. It is very clear from the outside the game that to play in any other manner was to play anti-competitively. This is a competitive server. Cat and mouse didn't really start until about 30 turns in and there were several times turn 36 and prior that the Nighthawk could have gone down. Miss RNG determined that the NH wasn't going to be disabled.

3. Did either OP or IL violate server rules in their discussions with each other? Before their last outburst no, after yes. Manifesto violations as I have pointed out.

Each of you have apologized to me privately. You should to each other, but you all are not children, I'm not going to make you.

Because you were willing to apologize, and I believe they are sincere, you each avoid a strike. Barely, I literally changed my mind as I wrote this out. I was going to ban each of you for a week and enforce a strike. I've chosen to take a "forgive but not forget" approach. No punishments, but do this again and this outburst will be used as evidence of a pattern of behavior and I won't hesitate to issue a strike and meaningful bans (probably a month) for not taking the hint.

I suggest you NP each other. If you need to post here and we can Admin NP if you have used yours and don't want to re-assign it.

This is my instruction:
You will not call other players cowards, mention their mothers, or imply they are stupid or anything else. You talk about the behavior. "Playing in X manner is unsportsmanlike and rude and this is why A, B, C. " "No it's not for reasons X, Y, Z"

I have unlocked this thread so you can appeal. DO NOT restart this argument here or anywhere else.

Note on appeals. Admins can do anything they like. It opens the complaint up. They can look at other facets of the incident. They can enforce punishments more and less than what I have, so appealing is always a risk.

obese pigeon
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Re: Complaint against Obese Pigeon.

Post by obese pigeon » Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:15 am

obese pigeon wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:32 am
Look at the bigger picture, learn how to handle your own emotions and curb your vindictiveness. I'm not your mommy, neither are the mods and the admins.
IL, I should not have brought in your mother. I apologize. Perhaps a better way to say it would be:

Edited by Nastyogre: too close to restarting the argument. Deleted. Apology alone is all that is necessary

obese pigeon wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:32 am
You must be a genius to know i'm going to play the "same way" when you surrendered in 3 turns :)
This was unnecessarily sarcastic. I apologize. A better way to put it would be:

EDITED BY NASTYOGRE: Too close to restarting the argument. "Better way" is irrelevant.

I hope Nasty's ruling gives you some peace. I am not going to appeal. I apologize again for putting you through such a long game, it was not my intent, and it is not the type of game I enjoy. I was simply doing what I always do: play the best game I can in any given situation.

EDITED BY NASTYOGRE: Too close to restarting discussion, not the place for it. If you want a civil discussion, please take it to the general forum. Other parts remain as they are relevant to the apology.

It may be upsetting of course, but hey, that's RNG (and maybe to a lesser extent, the auto-resolve threshold settings).

Addition by Nastyogre: best point you made yet OP, much of the challenge with this setting is the autoresolve settings.

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Nastyogre
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Re: Complaint against Obese Pigeon.

Post by Nastyogre » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:45 pm

Careful, I've edited out your restatements. The opportunity to do that has past. Apology and a bit of bridge mending is all that is appropriate.

Please leave it be. We have a nice resolution and I haven't had to be Nasty.

Illician Lancers
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Re: Complaint against Obese Pigeon.

Post by Illician Lancers » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:21 pm

Of course I accept the ruling of the mods in this case. I was curious to see where that ruling will go. Nothing to appeal.

There is one thing that bothers me of what Nasty said about this been a competitive server and OP playing competitively. Nothing to do with OP what is bothering me but i find relevant to mention it after the ruling because of what Nasty said in his ruling . Which I will not challenge at all. Alone the years practically all the complaints players had in this server about me was because I played competitive and use my armies in the way they were design to be use to be competitive and about the tactics that i use to made sure I played competitive in a competitive server. Amazingly nearly all those complaints were meet in the end with the server changing rules, army composition, limiting certain support units, changing planetary maps to put less cities, changing how reinforced building density went into cities, taking off certain tactics like switching off IDF, etc, etc and all because I played competitive using my armies the best way I can for what they were build for. I find interesting that been competitive then was an issue for the server in general but been competitive now is ok.

OP I do accept your apologies to mention anything related to my mother.

I do apology for any out of order comment or sentence that I said when things got personal.

As I said I did choose to leave the server and that is exactly what Im going to do. I hope that everybody have fun and enjoy their games.

Kind regards,

Illician Lancers

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Nastyogre
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Re: Complaint against Obese Pigeon.

Post by Nastyogre » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:35 am

You can start a discussion if you like, but not in the complaint forum. Thread locked.

Damn, directions are hard to follow.

Locked